susanwinters
Aug 24 2006, 04:59 PM
My co-worker and I were just discussing the remake of "The Wicker Man" with Nicholas Cage (remember the original one from 1973...creepy-great!). Anyway, we started to talk about books and movies with that theme...someone getting sacrificed (probably in some creepy village) to ensure the success of the crops. I noted Shirley Jackson's superb "The Lottery" and one of those children of the village of the corn of the damned movies (can't recall the exact title). Also, there was a fab horror novel about some awful house that needed human sacrifice to renew itself, again I can't think of the name. And the first chapter of Michner's "Hawaii" begins with the ancient high priests sacrificing a child to the god of the volcano.
Any other flicks/books you care to add?
ellennyc
Aug 24 2006, 05:17 PM
Spoiler alert for the movie "Skeleton Key":
There's a Stephen King short story in which a town closes down, once a year, because horrible fanged frogs will rain from the sky. And every year two strangers come to the town and are warned not to stay, and they always stay. They are devoured by the froggies, then the sun comes out, the froggies dry up and vanish, and life goes on. I will look up the name of the story...
The recent movie "Skeleton Key" sort of involved a human sacrifice - a couple who have achieved immortality via hoodoo (not voodoo) need new bodies periodically, and switch their old bodies for younger, newer ones. The souls of the younger folks go into their former (now elderly) bodies.
susanwinters
Aug 24 2006, 05:38 PM
Oooooo, "Skeleton Key", that's the one my co-worker mentioned to me, have to check it out! The one I told her about was a terrifying story called "The Hungry Glass"...I saw it on Thriller when I was a kid, about an old hag who lives in a mirror in a decaying Southern mansion and need human companionship to keep her "alive" in her mirrors. I was haunted and still am by this one:
http://www.scifilm.org/tv/thriller/thriller1-16.html
Also, check out this Celtic link:
http://gallery.sjsu.edu/sacrifice/celt.html
PerfumeMe
Aug 24 2006, 10:51 PM
QUOTE (susanwinters @ Aug 24 2006, 02:59 PM)

children of the village of the corn of the damned
Ha! Ha! Sounds like a great name for a sequel!
helg
Aug 25 2006, 07:25 AM
The human sacrifice thing in order to ensure good crops or the solidarity of a new building is as old as the world itself. Points out how difficult life must have been for people in pre-historic times to be willing to go to such lengths.
There are many Balkan folk songs and tales about sacrificing a young woman when building a new building, especially bridges (which were and still are considered the height of mechanical and engineering mastery).
A greek one tells about 3 sisters who were sacrificed for the building of three bridges: one in Danube, one in Euphrate and one in Greece. (the song is named "Arta's bridge" from the place the bridge still is)
The sister is married to a young engineer who builds a bridge that falls over and over, as if cursed. To lift the curse, they have to sacrifice his young bride; bury her alive in the foundations. The engineer has no choice and agrees with a heavy heart, because he loves her dearly, but has to think of the greater good. They have to trick her to come for her husband and they tell her that he has lost his wedding ring, so she should go pick it up (being slender and all).
She does and then they lay on brick upon brick and wall her up, to die in there, buried alive. Before she dies she casts a curse for the bridge to be unstable and for the crossers to die from falling off, but they remind her of her brother who is in a foreign land and in case he crosses the bridge, she changes the curse into a wish for the bridge to be stable (she says "if wild birds fall and if wild mountains tremor, so shall the bridge move", which of course ensures the stability) It's a Balkan classic.
A modern book that recounts such a similar tale is the one by Margeurite Yourcenar called "Nouvelles orientales" (=oriental tales)In it there are folk tales recounted in a literary manner (exquisite all of them!) and in one such there is again the young bride who is buried alive by her adoring husband in order to solidify a building. Since she has a child they leave out her breasts, so the little baby can suckle and be sustained....Very touching!
I think the tale is called "Sourire de Marco" (=Marco's smile)
I highly recommend the collection.
I also remember many of Edgar Allan Poe's tales with human sacrifice (Cask of Amodillado, for instance), but they have to do with revenge mostly, not tribe good or anything.
There is then of course the Latin American tale of the human who decides to sacrifice himself in order to become a sun-god for a tribe who had no gods for this. Pretty neat of him!
The Aztecs were involved in bloody sacrifices.
There is a distinct masochistic underplay under those sacrifice tales, if one wants to see it that way.
katy
Aug 25 2006, 08:02 AM
Thomas Tryon's novel "Harvest Home" deals with this theme.
Armanis
Aug 25 2006, 08:03 AM
Suz . . . those THRILLER episodes, were FABULOUS. I remember THE HUNGRY GLASS. Another one, was called THE PURPLE ROOM. Unless, they're the same episode; the one you describe sounds very familiar to me. That show, was very very scary, and intense. I loved it. BTW: K. remembers THE HUNGY GLASS!! She is cringing, next to me . . . hadn't thought about THRILLER, for many years. Used to scare the daylights out of us, both!
Helg, I remember the stories (based on historical fact,) about Greek maidens doing a folk dance, then taking turns jumping off the mountainside, to avoid 'contanimation' by the Turks.
The movie that comes to my mind, is one that I cannot find now, anywhere: BIRD OF PARADISE. I'm describing the version with LOUIS JOURDAN, and DEBRA PAGET. Saw it twice, on television, a number of decades ago. Enormously affecting conclusion: Kalua is asked to sacrifice herself to a volcano's fire, in order to stop its lava from flowing.
helg
Aug 25 2006, 08:27 AM
QUOTE (Armanis @ Aug 25 2006, 08:03 AM)

[size=4][color=#996633]Helg, I remember the stories (based on historical fact,) about Greek maidens doing a folk dance, then taking turns jumping off the mountainside, to avoid 'contanimation' by the Turks.
The movie that comes to my mind, is one that I cannot find now, anywhere: BIRD OF PARADISE. I'm describing the version with LOUIS JOURDAN, and DEBRA PAGET. Saw it twice, on television, a number of decades ago. Enormously affecting conclusion: Kalua is asked to sacrifice herself to a volcano's fire, in order to stop its lava from flowing.
Armanis, yep, those ladies died not to be captured alive and wed against their will at a time of opression and slavery.
That movie....wasn't "Joe vs the Volcano" with Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan a remake of it? The plot sounds familiar....
Armanis
Aug 25 2006, 08:34 AM
Click to view attachmentHelg, you just have to be GREEK, to know . . .
I am not familiar with any remake of BIRD OF PARADISE, but there was an earlier version made in the thirties, I believe. Such a heartbreaker of a movie . . . out of print. Too bad.
susanwinters
Aug 25 2006, 11:41 AM
Whoa, Helg, I LOVED the bridge story, very cool!
Mietros, I still have dreams about that hag in the mirror, pulling in the young bride. Thriller was excellent and chilling TV...do you think we should have been watching at such a tender age?
Katy, thanks for the name of the book, that's the one!
Armanis
Aug 25 2006, 12:17 PM
Hi Suz . . . well, I've ALWAYS loved, the supernatural, the bizarre, the off center. OBVIOUSLY. LOL. What surprises me is that my sister, who still needs a night light in order to sleep, and who doesn't like to be alone . . . couldn't take her eyes off these episodes, either! They were SO WELL DONE. Thriller had a merciless, sense of pace and impending doom. If you saw one minute, that was it . . . same with the old movies. One minute, and you're hooked!
I was watching other 'adult' oriented entertainment, by age eight: Woman's World, From the Terrace, Ten North Frederick, The Barefoot Contessa, Butterfield 8 . . . those movies really were, my college education. I learned a heck of a lot more from John O'Hara, than I did from sitting in a classroom!!
Chenas
Aug 25 2006, 12:24 PM
I love the theme song of The Wicker Man. It's odd that such a scary movie has such a romantic song.
The only time I read it was in high school, but I remember that The Lord of the Flies has a human sacrifice scene.
Mietros, would you call the scene of Sebastian's death in Suddenly Last Summer a human sacrifice? It was not ritualized, that's for sure, but you almost feel like those boys have done something similar to another tourist in their town.
Also, if I ever run a college, I'm hiring you to teach a seminar on John O'Hara that will be required for all incoming freshmen.
helg
Aug 25 2006, 12:50 PM
QUOTE (Chenas @ Aug 25 2006, 12:24 PM)

The only time I read it was in high school, but I remember that The Lord of the Flies has a human sacrifice scene.
*smacks forehead with palm*
Of course! (great book btw)
You all make me want to check out Wicker. Scary much?
susanwinters
Aug 25 2006, 01:01 PM
Oh, yes, that scene would definitely qualify...it is very ritualistic, Chenas.
So is Stravinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps (Rite of Spring)...Spring will only come if an innocent maiden is sacrificed by those awful little troll-like creatures.
Chenas
Aug 25 2006, 01:05 PM
QUOTE (helg @ Aug 25 2006, 12:50 PM)

*smacks forehead with palm*
Of course! (great book btw)
You all make me want to check out Wicker. Scary much?
More atmospheric scary, than gore scary, but still scary. I would not class it with the Hammer flicks, but with movies about young, attractive girls who dissapear, like The Virgin Suicides or Picnic at Hanging Rock.
QUOTE (susanwinters @ Aug 25 2006, 01:01 PM)

Oh, yes, that scene would definitely qualify...it is very ritualistic, Chenas.
So is Stravinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps (Rite of Spring)...Spring will only come if an innocent maiden is sacrificed by those awful little troll-like creatures.
Right, Susan! And Sacre du Printemps is probably the most important ballet of the 20th century. I saw the Angelin Prejlocaj version at the Joyce a few years go, BTW.
Armanis
Aug 25 2006, 02:14 PM
Click to view attachmentChenas, LOL!! I do feel that BU 8 and From the Terrace, should be required reading and viewing, for all college freshmen, if NOT, high school sophomores?! Nowadays, anything goes: 'let's face it, Momma! I was the slut of all time!'
for THAT matter . . . Gloria Wandrous was a human sacrifice, too!
Sofiadurango
Aug 25 2006, 03:05 PM
QUOTE (susanwinters @ Aug 24 2006, 03:59 PM)

My co-worker and I were just discussing the remake of "The Wicker Man" with Nicholas Cage (remember the original one from 1973...creepy-great!). Anyway, we started to talk about books and movies with that theme...someone getting sacrificed (probably in some creepy village) to ensure the success of the crops. I noted Shirley Jackson's superb "The Lottery" and one of those children of the village of the corn of the damned movies (can't recall the exact title). Also, there was a fab horror novel about some awful house that needed human sacrifice to renew itself, again I can't think of the name. And the first chapter of Michner's "Hawaii" begins with the ancient high priests sacrificing a child to the god of the volcano.
Any other flicks/books you care to add?
There was just a story in either the local newspaper (off the AP) or a periodical I subscribe too, can't remember exactly which.... about somewhere in the world that child sacrifice is still being practiced... and
the organizations trying to stop it.
helg
Aug 25 2006, 03:16 PM
QUOTE (Chenas @ Aug 25 2006, 01:05 PM)

More atmospheric scary, than gore scary, but still scary. I would not class it with the Hammer flicks, but with movies about young, attractive girls who dissapear, like The Virgin Suicides or Picnic at Hanging Rock.
Sounds positively riveting! Thanks a lot!
Armanis
Aug 25 2006, 04:14 PM
Click to view attachmentDoes anyone remember the show, NIGHT GALLERY?? It was soooooo good. One episode titled GREEN FINGERS, dealt with a woman about to lose her home, to 'progress.' Elsa Lanchester plays the horticulturist, heroine. In order to make room for the new highway, Ms. L. gets murdered. During the struggle, a few of her fingers get sliced away; Lanchester plants them before she dies.
Guess, what?? Anything she planted . . . grew . . . even ELSA, herself. Fabulous fun.
Wildwhiffer
Aug 26 2006, 01:12 AM
Yes, I remember that Hawaiian movie where the beautiful girl had to walk up that red hot mountain to her death-whew, talk about hot!
I also think there was a bit of sacrifice in my holy grail historical novel "Sarum" by Edward Rutheford. I think that book should be required reading for all high schoolers. It really opened my eyes to racial pureness (I don't know what else to call it) issues - there really aren't any "pure" races according to this novel. For example; the Romans ruled England for so many years, it is conceivable that the English have Roman ancestry (oversimplified, but you get the point).
helg
Aug 26 2006, 06:09 AM
QUOTE (Wildwhiffer @ Aug 26 2006, 01:12 AM)

the Romans ruled England for so many years, it is conceivable that the English have Roman ancestry (oversimplified, but you get the point).
Sounds an exciting book.
The Birtish (whole UK for those purposes) in particular have at least 4 major racial ancentries: Celtic, Roman, Norman and Viking.
I think it's plain to see how every nation which has been in some contact with others has mixed ancestry.
It's also interesting to trace that in language.
fentontfox
Aug 26 2006, 10:07 AM
QUOTE (helg @ Aug 26 2006, 06:09 AM)

Sounds an exciting book.
The Birtish (whole UK for those purposes) in particular have at least 4 major racial ancentries: Celtic, Roman, Norman and Viking.
I think it's plain to see how every nation which has been in some contact with others has mixed ancestry.
It's also interesting to trace that in language.
talking of language traits the welsh for bridge is pont and the italian is ponte, funny how two of the most different sounding languages you could imagine have such a similar word for the same thing.
A book i remember reading a few years back was aztec by gary jennings which used a lot of historical research even though it was fiction to describe some quite horrific details of aztec sacrifices including one where the main character's sister was sacrificed and the preists then skinned her and wore the skin in one of the rituals.
helg
Aug 27 2006, 05:04 AM
QUOTE (fentontfox @ Aug 26 2006, 10:07 AM)

talking of language traits the welsh for bridge is pont and the italian is ponte, funny how two of the most different sounding languages you could imagine have such a similar word for the same thing.
Good to know! They do both have a latin origin ("pont" is the same thing in french! )
I have noticed such differences and associations in foreign languages myself. It's a fascinating subject!!
QUOTE (fentontfox @ Aug 26 2006, 10:07 AM)

A book i remember reading a few years back was aztec by gary jennings which used a lot of historical research even though it was fiction to describe some quite horrific details of aztec sacrifices including one where the main character's sister was sacrificed and the preists then skinned her and wore the skin in one of the rituals.
This sounds intriguing and quite scary! Thanks for the rec.
PerfumeMe
Aug 27 2006, 12:05 PM
QUOTE (helg @ Aug 25 2006, 05:25 AM)

The sister is married to a young engineer who builds a bridge that falls over and over, as if cursed. To lift the curse, they have to sacrifice his young bride; bury her alive in the foundations.
Er, shouldn't they have killed the HUSBAND for being such a lousy engineer?
helg
Aug 27 2006, 01:44 PM
QUOTE (PerfumeMe @ Aug 27 2006, 12:05 PM)

Er, shouldn't they have killed the HUSBAND for being such a lousy engineer?
Correct, but it would withhold the drama.....LOL
Julia in Maryland
Aug 29 2006, 12:36 PM
For a really interesting read on the topic of human sacrifice, war and other related subjects, get Barbara Ehrenreich's BLOOD RITES. She also wrote NICKEL AND DIMED, another good book.
helg
Aug 29 2006, 04:12 PM
And of course how could I forget greek tragedy: Ifigenia by Eurypides. I am sure there are English translations aplenty.
Her dad Agamemnon was told by the oracle to sacrifice her in orderto appease the goddes Diana so that the wind would rise and the ships would travel to Troy for the war. They told her to come at the place they were stationed in order to be engaged to Achilles.....poor girl.....
susanwinters
Aug 29 2006, 06:48 PM
Thanks for that tip, Julia...I read Nickled and Dimed, that was an excellent book...will check this one out, too.
Helg, I saw that scene performed recently at La Mama...the poor girl was sweet and defenseless and went to her death like a lamb to the slaughter. Arggggh!
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