Click to view attachmentWell, are they?? Do your crusts turn out tender, golden, flaky and full of flavor? Or, are they cardboard and wallpaper paste? I think crusts can be challenging; the most important law is not to fuss with them. Roll them and re-roll them, and you'll have cardboard for company. Of that, you can be sure.

What are your secrets, to pie crust perfection? Here's one that I find to be hugely influential: I always pre-bake my lower crust, BEFORE filling it with apples or cherries, or peaches. This way you start off, with crust on its way to luscious, golden brown.

What are your tricks to the pie crust, trade?

I refrigerate 1/2 my shortening, always use a pastry blender, and use ice water. My crusts are pretty darn perfect. My recipe is straight from the Betty Crocker cookbook. And I always make extra for Cinamon Ginnys.

Freezing cold ingredients, and a Cuisinart. The Cuisinart makes pie crust a cinch. You can do it in minutes. I agree, the trick is to not overwork it - use the pulse button, and then roll it out once on waxed paper, chill, put it in the pan.

I've never pre-baked but it sounds like a good idea.

I do think they are the hardest thing to get right. I have given up. I buy the ones frozen in the supermarkets!!!!

Don't handle the dough too much.

Temperature is key: ingredients should be cold. After the dough comes together, either by hand, in the mixer or the food processor, wrap it in foil, plastic or wax paper and refrigerate it before rolling it out.

Yes, I pre-bake my pie shells somewhat, and I've never had a soggy crust.

I don't know what's so hard about pie crust, though I've had a lot of practice and can whip one up in minutes. Cold ingredients and a pastry blender (or two butter knives held together in one hand) are important. The food processor makes it a snap.

I measure two cups of flour and a scant teaspoon of salt in a bowl. I measure one cup of shortening, cut it into bits, and mash it into the flour with a pastry blender (or the butter knives), stirring once in a while, till the flour is all incorporated and the dough is pebbly looking. Then I add in small amounts a half-cup of ice water, stirring with a fork till it holds together in a ball (may not need all the water, may need more). I wrap this up in wax paper and refrigerate at least an hour. I roll it out between two pieces of wax paper. Voila.

An alternative to pre-baking the bottom crust is to brush it with some melted jelly or very slightly beaten egg white. Either one will act as a seal against wet ingredients.

I've heard that, Sandra . . . in fact, I bought a can of Ceresota, Baker's Shine substitute. Haven't used it, yet. Are you familiar with this product?

I love my pie crust. The recipe I have is from the Allen Brothers Farm in VT, and was published in Sue Hubbell's expose on American pies, THE GREAT AMERICAN PIE EXPEDITION, in The New Yorker. For a two crust dough, it is as folows:

2 c. flour (I use all purpose, but last year discovered Italian "00" flour at my grocery, which given even nicer results)
3/4 c. shortening (I use Crisco)
1 1/2 tbsp. sugar
1 tsp. salt
1 egg
1 tbsp vinegar (either white or apple cider)
1/4 c. water

Mix dry ingredients in a bowl and cut in shortening with a pastry blender. I go for a pea sized consistency in the flour and shortening mixture.
In another bowl, beat together egg, vinegar and water.
Mix with dry ingredients and refrigerate dough for at least two hours before rolling out.
Makes a 9 inch two crust pie.

This is the recipe I use for a double crust apple, strawberry-rhubarb or cherry pie. I don't prebake the bottom shell.

That's very interesting. I always pre bake! The vinegar, makes me take notice, too. Can't imagine, WHY??

I did not know why the vinegar is there either, Armanis, but I don't mess with success. But since you asked I googled around and one explanation is that the vinegar prevents the gluten strands in the flour from getting too long, ensuring flakiness in the crust. (An example of a food where you want long gluten strands, are yeast breads). And I have to say, this recipe makes a nice flaky crust.

Here's another article on pie crusts with vinegar.

http://www.thereporter.com/garvey/ci_3989867

Acerbic hugs, your way, my dear!!

My food processor's kinda small, so I use it only to combine the dry ingredients, then I add in part of the fat, combine it really well with the dry ingredients, then add the last of the fat, cut in small cubes, and only process it for a little bit, just barely 'enough.' Then I dump the contents into a large bowl, add the liquid ingredients, and stir lightly with a fork, just to combine.

You guys are making me feel guilty...I just use the frozen. I'm afraid to try making it from scratch, I guess that's silly, it's just that you hear about how hard it is to do, so I always thought that it was beyond my capabilities.

Crusts are challenging... but I don't think they're the bakers biggest challenge. That honor goes to brioche, from what I've heard. (I wouldn't know, I've never made brioche).

I make my crusts with all butter, which I know is not the easiest way to do it and doesn't yield the absolute flakiest result (for that I'd use half butter, half lard, if you really want to know) but there's nothing like butter for taste. The trick is to keep it very cold and work the dough as little as possible.



Victoria -- what are cinnamon ginny's? Are they those little rolled-up pieces of pie crust dusted with cinnamon sugar that you do with the leftover rolled-out piecrust pieces? If so, I never realized they had a name.

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I use butter or part butter and part Smart Balance, because Crisco is a transfat (unless they changed the formula lately). Sometimes I use my mother's recipe with veg oil and milk. The crust is always crumbly but the taste is only so-so. I chill the dough after it's rolled out and in the pan, sometimes for a few hours if I have the time, to relax the gluten, but I will try to remember the vinegar tip. I haven't done any baking in many months because it's been too hot. I'm looking forward to fall and winter though. Yummy!

Oh my. I don't even like to type this let alone say it but if I want the kind of pie crust that draws the salivary glands to ecstasy I use cold pure lard. Handle it as little as possible. Roll between pieces of wax paper. I know it's a recipe for death but the flakiness is unparalleled.

Have known many a baker, 'matchgrl, who agrees with you and uses lard, only.

There are just CERTAIN things that you do NOT substitute.

I'm not a pie maker though........except for key lime pie.

Me too - I've mastered key lime pie - that's it! I use the Tender Flake pre-made pie shells when making all other pies - making my own pastry is a challenge I've yet to attempt.

Just curious - do you use a special pastry cloth on a board and rolling pin during the roll-out of the pastry?

Hi Elizabeth Damon . . . I have some of those mesh clothes, but once my pin and board got 'seasoned,' I found that those extra necessities, weren't vital. Watch how much flour you add to your board, though. As little as possible . . . btw: was at Baker's Square, the other day . . . didn't think their crusts, were that great.

Yeppers, lard is the magic ingredient. [You know, people have been ga-ga recently over Krispy Kreme donuts... I heard that their secret ingredient was suet... rendered beef fat. There is something to be said for those forbidden animal fats, methinks.] My father likes to tell about how his grandfather, circa WWII days, would schmeer pure lard across across a biscuit (that is to say, an American scone style biscuit), then apply homemade pear preserves-- the delicious country kind, with large wedges of pear, and whole cloves floating in it.



By the way, his grand-dad was perfectly skinny the whole time. Sedentary lifestyles then? Not so much.


They say proper measuring is the key to a good crust; that's partly true. The fat measurement may be generously measured if you like, it's flexible, but it's the water that must be carefully measured. Really, you want to have as little water as you can possibly manage. The fat is the TRUE binder of a good crust. If the dough is too dry, literally only droplets of water are all that should be added.



As lmatchgirl specifies, you want to handle the dough as little as possible. Truth be told, you really only get ONE chance to mix it, roll it flat and lay it into your dish.... that's where the baker's finesse comes into it.



I went through a brioche and croissant baking phase... It is fairly tricky-- and certainly time-consuming-- to pull off. The trick is to use that European-style superfatted butter, and keep it unrefrigerated during the whole "spreading" stage. Then you freeze your layers, one at a time, so the butter layers stay in place. Funny, but the faster and more confidently you work, the better your chances of success. If you linger too sensuously over the rolling part, the butter will get mixed into the dough and lose its "separateness". Yes, having a floured pastry cloth helps.

rasputin . . . those hostess fruit pies, are made with beef lard, I think?! Truth be told, I love 'em. They are delicious! The fat content is of course, off the charts.

Agree . . . the best crusts I've ever turned out, barely stayed together enough to be formed into a disc. On the dry side, correct! Yet, I've read many recipes that insist that if your crust is too dry, you won't be able to roll it. Not saying it's easy, but the results are really excellent. Flakes, galore!

Have never done a brioche or croissant . . . my grandmother could do them. Fascinated me, to watch her bake.

My mother was the best baker ever. Farm lady who churned her own butter and raised her own chickens...at least when I was little.

I've tried many a time to make pie crust. It was "just okay."
I followed Martha's and the other's recipes to the T.

Then I met the little fat white guy made of dough. He rocked my baking world!

My husband's late mother would bake and scrape pumpkin to make a labor intensive pumpkin pie that was barely edible.

I used the Libby's recipe on the label and added extra spices. Then I would pour it into the Doughboy's crust and bake. My pumpkin pie was always ate to the last crumb when there would be leftovers of the others.
It wasn't "my recipe" but it was the best tasting. Sometimes easy really is better!

Cool for all of us!
Why make it harder than it needs to be?

Karen



Rasputin...

Please promise me not to eat lard...we need you here to talk about perfume and stuff! :)

Karen

"Agree . . . the best crusts I've ever turned out, barely stayed together enough to be formed into a disc. On the dry side, correct! Yet, I've read many recipes that insist that if your crust is too dry, you won't be able to roll it"


Yes yes yes. My mother drummed this into me. And when I was 10 she left with my dad to go out to dinner.
I decided to make my first pie in their absence. I took her instructions about the crumbly dough as gospel. My inexperience with a rolling pin caused me to question it's use. So I carefully and quickly pressed the crumbling mixture piece by piece into the pie shell. Baked it, then filled with a lemon cream. I used extra egg whites for the meringue topping and created a mile high perfection. Mom tasted and actually asked me how I got the crust so flaky.
It was a memorably proud moment. I've mastered the rolling pin now, but that first foray into pastry making taught me that the dough must have a major fat content and actually LOOK and BE flaky from the get go. Fragile Fragile extremely fragile stuff.

'matchgrl . . . EXACTLY. The best crusts I've ever made, and to RAVE notices . . . were DIFFICULT, to handle. Dry, and pebbly.

A pumpkin pie is a thing of beauty and making it the "easy way" insures uniform pumpkiny goodness every single time. However, last Thanksgiving just for fun I made a pumpkin pie using a little pumpkin I grew out back, and from- scratch pie crust. It was absolutely AWESOME, not to brag, but it was like the Rolls Royce of pumpkin pies, and I can't say why, exactly. Not just because I made it from scratch, but it was light and fresh tasting. Maybe if I made it again it wouldn't be as good. This year we are expecting batches of Wee-B- Little and Baby Boo pumpkins, don't think they are suitable for cooking purposes.

Salinq, that's ANOTHER baker's question: canned, or fresh pumpkin. My Cook's cookbook claims that canned pumpkin turns out just a good a product; they admitted too, that expediency could not be overlooked. I have never done a 'fresh,' pumpkin pie . . . this may be the year, to try one. I'm sure your pie was off the planet, delicious.

I've used fresh pumpkin and also fresh butternut squash as well as cushaw squash in pies. Pumpkin can be occasionally unpredictable with some stringyness or excessive water in certain ones. Though I'm sure yours, Salinqmind, was absolute pure heaven. Both butternut and the cushaw are virtually synonomous to pumpkin in taste once the cream, ample spice, and sugar are added. These squashes -always- yield densely firm, uniformly orange, solid, sweeter than pumpkin, flesh. Given a choice, I'll use the cushaw for the holiday pies because of it's clock work predictability.
I've known people who steam their pumpkin or squash on top of the stove. Tried this method and it adds too much water for my taste. Halving two sides (cut side down) onto a 1 or 2 inch lipped greased cookie sheet in a 350 degree oven works really well.

I've used both canned and fresh and can confirm that canned produces a pie that is indistinguishable from fresh. This may depend on the recipe. It's critical to get rid of the wateriness if you use fresh pumpkin.

I agree that the squashes are a better choice than pumpkin, although those flat, beige pumpkins can work, too. Sweet potato pie is just as good as pumpkin pie, with the same flavor profile.

While we're mentioning brioche:





My friend Philippe from Nimes, Provence, told me that when Marie Antoinette suggested that the downtrodden French peasantry "eat cake", she actually said, "Qu'ils mangeant de brioche." And "brioche", because this was what SHE usually had for breakfast.



Philippe also told me that Marie Antoinette was NOT being flip or sarcastic when she said this ! (News to me.) She was just sheltered and dumb enough and disconnected froim her subjects to really be mystified that every paysanne couldn't afford brioche for breakfast.



No wonder that pretty head of hers had ta go. (-:

Like W's father marveling at the barcode reader in the supermarket.

I do basically what salinqmind does. The only difference is that I add a heaping tablespoon of sugar, and use all butter. I actually like a gooey, not flakey crust. :-) So I don't prebake or coat the bottom crust.