Goblet is the newest of the Harry Potter movies. I adore the books and the movies (but the books more). I was reading Manohla Dargis' review of the movie in the NYT and came across what I think is an absolutely hysterically funny comment. Ralph Fiennes, occasionally discussed here, appears in the series for the first time as Lord Valdemort. The reviewer raves about his performance and says, "His Valdemort may be the greatest screen performance ever delivered without the benefit of a nose; certainly it's a performance of sublime villiany."

I know what I'll be doing on Thanksgiving while the rest of you (in the US) are scarfing turkey and struggling with your families;-) I did that last week to avoid the holiday travel crunch - except we had hickory smoked barbecue, slaw, and hushpuppies. Yum. Really.


ooops - thought I had this in "Arts". Would a mod please relocate!? Tx

Absolutely Harry Potter is Art with a capital A!

Just read a review of the new film, colonia, and I look forward to seeing it. I have enjoyed the films but like you, I love the books the best. Not only does the story carry you along but I love wallowing in Rowling's colourful and flowing language. Despite their length, the books always seem too short to me.

I just finished re-reading all the books trying to figure out what Snape's back story could possibly be. He's the one that intrigues me the most, since his attitude is so at odds with his behaviour. (Until the end of the last book, although I do think it was all part of a major plan.) Someone please discuss this with me! :)

I don't see how they can put all the important details in the GoF in just 2 hours. I'm sure I will be disappointed.

Trinity, I totally agree. I think Snape and Dumbledore have a grand master plan going. Can we talk spoilers here?

Yes, please! ... or should we start a new thread? I want to hear everyone's theories, as I certainly have my own.

By the way, having re-read all the books just now, I must say this last one (HBP) is not as well written as GoF and OotP.

Oooh, count me in as another Harry Potter fan. The books are FUN, and yes I agree there seems to be more to the Snape/Dumbledore thing than meets the eye.
I just keep thinking about that oath Snape made to Malfoy's mother.

There is more there than meets the eye.

I'm looking forward to seeing the film.

Have you all read The Half Blood Prince?

Barry

AHHHHHHH Like-minded Potter Nuts!!! I love you guys!! Ha Ha

I've got all the books and have read them all several (SEVERAL) times... I've got the American versions and the British ones as well (I actually enjoy them a bit better... though can someone tell me why the Brits do not use punctuation with Mr and Mrs??) A good friend who lives in London sent me all the books, though I'm still waiting for HBP to be sent...

WARNING DONT READ ANY FURTHER IF YOU HAVENT READ HALF-BLOOD PRINCE YET, I'VE INCLUDED SPOILERS

Anyways... I have a theory with Snape/Dumbledore... anyone care to hear it? well here it is anyways Ha Ha

During the entire book, there was particular emphasis on Non-Verbal Spells, and how to cast them without warning anyone what you are about to do, VERY IMPT while dueling... and when Dumbeldore is having the final conversation with Malfoy he keeps reiterating that he can make Draco 'seem dead' to Voldomort..that he can essentially make Draco dissappear... so my connection is this... I think that when Snape uttered the Avada Kedavra curse, he could have thought a different spell first, thus not killing Dumbledore, and I think Dumbledore faked his death in order to somehow take advantage of being 'dead' and increase his chances of bringing Voldomort down by sneaky means... This way it looks as Snape fulfilled his Unbreakable Vow. I think there was a higher plan here...and I think Harry will have to discover what that was....he may have to take a giant leap of faith first.... Dumbeldore was such a skilled wizard that I think it would be easy to fake his death...even Fawkes could have played a role (by pretending to sing in mourning). It would be easy for Dumbeldore to also add his portrait to the walls of now McGonagalls office...also if the portraits can talk and visit other places as seen in Order of the Phenoix, how come Dumbeldores painting is snoring away gently?? If I had been just murderd and my painting could speak and think for itself I'd be screaming at the top of my lungs as to what happend...

I wish Dumbeldore had told Harry more though...he realized his mistake in not telling Harry about the prophecy in HP&OotP. I think Dumbeldore still underestimated Harry not being able to handle certain truths because of his young age. I would have liked to hear why his (Dumbeldores) arm kept getting worse. I also want to know who gets Fawkes now...

Anyone have a guess as to who R.A.B is? Many Potter-nuts think its Sirius's brother, Regulus Black. And there was a mention (very clever and sneaky JKR foreshadowing) about a Locket that wouldnt open at 12 Grimmauld Place that they all found while cleaning the house in HPOotP...how long will it be before Harry realizes that hes already (maybe) touched a Horcrux?? Or will he go back and find that Mundungus has knicked that as well as the family silver of the Blacks which means Harry would have to hunt for it and with Mundungus now in Azkaban it might take a while... if you dont know, Regulus was a Death Eater who was killed by Voldomort, and just a few short days after he left the Death Eaters (according to Lupin). Theory was that (like Draco) was mesmerized by the Death Eaters but the reality of actually being one was too much to handle.

Okay WOW...get me started and I can't stop.... anyways I have my ticket for tomorrow night, IMAX Baby!!! Can't wait to see the next flick! Love to hear what you all think about it....

Also if anyone else has any comment about my theories or has one of thier own, I'd LOVE to hear it....


Dawn

I have read the Half Blood Prince. I definitely felt a bit of a letdown in comparison to how I felt after finishing the Order of the Phoenix. I can't really say why though.

I think Snape was deep undercover inside the Death Eaters. I don't think Dumbledore is really dead. It was all a setup between him and Snape to make Voldemort and his followers think that their greatest threat had been removed and they could come out in the open now. I really need to go back and read it again since I read it so fast the first time.

I kind of felt that letdown too sgupta and attributed it to a sad and empty feeling after the death of Dumbledore. This is where I give Rowling credit and admiration: she doesn't write down to kids or let them off the hook from facing hard things in life. No sudden happy endings for Harry or the reader. He/we have to deal with what comes.

Dawn, you've got me wondering now. When is the last book coming out?

I'm not sure of when the next book will be out. There are 3 sites I use for all my HP needs...

www.jkrowling.com/en/
www.mugglenet.com
www.hp-lexicon.org/index-2.html

Mugglenet is great when new info comes out, though right now all they are posting are clips and pics from the GOF premieres... but when JKR opens the Room of Requirement on her site, they always know first... this room is where she has posted the next titles of her books, and release/publication dates and sometimes little excerpts (she gave us a few descriptions)... but so far no one knows when book 7 is being written (though JKR has repeatedly said that the last chapter of book 7 is done, and shes just been writing up to it) Its amazing that shes had all this mapped out in her head for over 15 years! I was hoping that the room would have opened on Halloween like it did last year but the door remained subbornly shut. It opened a couple of days before christmas last year with the announcement of the Publication date in for HBP. Maybe it will open this year around that time.... :-) My bet is that Book 7 will be published sometime in Summer of 2007...an angonizing wait, but typical since its been 2 years in between books 4, 5, and 6. She doesnt need for people to wait to create Hype though....they sell no matter how long, i think they'd sell faster if they came out faster...but i guess its all part of Potter-Magic!

HP Lexicon is the great encyclopdia of all things Potter... I use that when i need to look up someone, or something in the books, also great for refreshers...


Dawn

Count me in as a fellow Harry potter-lover. And...I saw the Goblet of fire this monday (work thing, some props are great) and it's GREAT. Very dark and a bit scary. I can't understand that it's allowed foir 12 year olds, I thought it was pretty scary. But good-scary. Like all the other films, the story's good and true to the book. and the special effects are pretty spectacular.

Anna, the review I read said this one is rated PG-13.

Dawn, I saw a biography on TV of JKRowling which must have been done around the time the last book came out and in it she said the final book is already written.

Also, why in the world did D have to immobilize Harry? He was already invisible, so I think it was to prevent him from taking any action against Snape and D's plan.

Are you aware that the British books and American books are a little different in this regard? There are more clues in the American text and mention of V not being able to kill Malfoy if he is already "dead" are left out of the British version. Here in Canada, we have the British text, by the way...

I don't think it was getting worse, I thought it was not getting any better (or healing).

Yes, and there was also a lot of emphasis on Legilimency and Occlumency... (which is what Snape is so good at... ) Something important was happening when the two sisters came to Snape's house at the beginning of the book, JKR only told us a tiny bit.

It makes sense that Snape was given the DAtDA job, since the position is cursed and the teacher will only last one year...

One more thing... did you find Snape a little gentle with Narcissa when she was crying? So UnSnape-like, it seemed...

[quote][quote name='Trinity' date='Nov 17 2005, 05:01 PM' post='12433']
Also, why in the world did D have to immobilize Harry? He was already invisible, so I think it was to prevent him from taking any action against Snape and D's plan.[/quote]

Good Point, i think he wanted Harry to see and hear everything but not be able to do anything...

[quote]Are you aware that the British books and American books are a little different in this regard? There are more clues in the American text and mention of V not being able to kill Malfoy if he is already "dead" are left out of the British version. Here in Canada, we have the British text, by the way...[/quote]

I havent seen the list of differences between the Brit and American versions of HBP since I dont have a Brit copy of it yet, I've got a list of all the other books differences...there seem to be less and less as the books go on though...more differences in the first two than in the last two books...wonder if thats her or her editors..

[quote]Yes, and there was also a lot of emphasis on Legilimency and Occlumency... (which is what Snape is so good at... ) Something important was happening when the two sisters came to Snape's house at the beginning of the book, JKR only told us a tiny bit.[/quote]

JKR placed a lot of emphasis on this in OotP, but it kills me that harry wasn't trying bc you know that its going to play a big role in the books later and harry is going to wish he practiced a bit more...

[quote]It makes sense that Snape was given the DAtDA job, since the position is cursed and the teacher will only last one year...[/quote]

I was thinking about this too...Dumbeldore must have known that Snape wouldnt last the year....

[quote]One more thing... did you find Snape a little gentle with Narcissa when she was crying? So UnSnape-like, it seemed...
[/quote]

I wonder who he had a crush on while he was at Hogwarts...I always assumed it was Lily...but maybe Narcissa??

by the way...how did u get ur quotes to look like they did Trinity...i still havent figured this board out...

Click on the little blue quote button, just above where you are writing and then put the sentence that you copied, in between the two quotes.

What is your theory on Snape?

Dumbledore vouches for him, he saves Harry on more than one occasion, helps Lupin with his potion, takes on that mysterious task for the Order of the Phoenix... yet is is completely miserable to H,R and H and of course there is the final chapter in the last book...

Snape is such a nasty guy, yet he seems to be a kind of "grudging coconspirator" with the Order of the Phoenix... or maybe he isn't grudging.

So is Snape loyal to Voldemort, or not? I don't think he is, but I was wondering what other people thought.

My biggest question is... what did Dumbledore do to get Snape to help the Order of the Phoenix? Some kind of spell, perhaps?

My grown daughter thinks Snape is not working for V. My grown son thinks Snape wants to take over from V.

Said daughter went to the midnight showing last night at college with a group of friends. They all dressed up for it. I've not heard from her yet. She made herself a Butterbeer necklace and raddish earrings. They were adorable! I can't wait to see the pictures. She was talked about on a radio program that comes from London, an Indian fellow's show. Her roommate is Indian. I wish I had the url for it again. I'll have to ask her. I suspect he will talk about her again. I said to her roommate that he undoubtedly thinks of my daughter as being odd looking but when he gets her picture he'll be blown away. She is so beautiful. (Spoken like a true mother, but true.)

I thought that about immobilizing Harry too. He was already invisible.

Just heard from my daughter. They had great time. Didn't get in until 3:30 and she is very tired. She liked the movie. Thought it felt like a Clift Notes version.

Do you remember reading that Snape said "by returning 2 hours later it seemed that I was being faithful to Dumbeldore, and Voldomort thought I could remain there as a spy" Now this goes against my theory that Snape is working on the good side, but he said this to Bellatrix and Narcissa in HBP..Actually its in the Spinners End Chapter 2 (American Version pgs 26-29) This is where Snape is 'confessing' to Bellatrix. I think it may have been a sham though...a set up. Voldomort is the most accomplished Legillimens, but is Snape the most accomplished Occulmens? Could he hide the truth from Voldomort? Or am I just wishful thinking and Snape is really a two-timing slimeball??


Dawn

That's a good point. I read that chapter so many times, but didn't really focus on that sentence. I was too busy trying to figure out why Snape stood up and pulled the curtains back to look through his window. That seemed so odd.

Snape is also an excellent Legilimens... we saw that in his lessons with Harry. I don't know where I am going with this... :)

I am wondering if Snape was with Voldemort at Godric’s Hollow. Don't you think someone else was there? I just can't get over that D vouched for his loyalty when he was found guilty of being a death eater at his trial... D isn't stupid... and I am a bit obsessed with finding out whose side Snape is really on.

By the way, I saw Daniel Radcliff interviewed on TV the other day and he said the only actor who has been given ANY idea of what is to come is... Alan Rickman.

The reader of the audio books captures the dicotomy of Snape, where you wonder how slimy he is/isn't. Sort of like he is portrayed in the movies. Excellent reading! My husband listened to the whole series, but not the newest yet, in his car going to and from work.

I thought I remembered Dum. saying that if something happened to him he would be stronger. Don't remember which book that was in. Neither my son nor daughter remembers this, but one of them thought it was a different story/movie, not HP at all. Anybody remember this?

I don't remember Dumbeldore saying anything like that.... sounds like a Gandolf thing from LOTR's, didn't he die and come back stronger or something??


Anyways.... Just got back from seeing the movie (on Imax)...and I kind of have mixed feelings...GOF wasnt my favorite book, and I was really annoyed because so much was left out (I know, I know they had time constraints with a 700+ page book) but still i was a bit perturbed... the begining went by very quickly... things kept happening so quickly that my head was spinning... but the effects were amazing, the acting was suprisingly good, lots of laughs (despite it being a darker book, Alan Rickman (Snape) and Brendan Gleeson (MadEye Moody) had some great lines!) Snape had always seem 'under-used' previously... I think he was better this time around and I'm sure he'll be great when HBP comes around (as its all about him) I still think I liked the 'look' of Prisoner of Azkaban better, though a lot of the scenery was the same... POA is my favorite book too! Hermione has really grown up...so has Ron. Fred and George had a great couple of scenes, Ginny wasnt around much, but Neville was great! Dobby was missing (though IMPT to the book) but I'm guessing hes just too expensive to produce. Draco the Amazing Bouncing Ferrett was hysterical.

And Lord Voldomort....WOW is all I can say for Ralph Finnes!! FANTASTIC. The graveyard scene was creepy and well played out. Cedrics death was a shock to read but even more of a shock to 'see'.... (I didnt cry, but it was close)


I know its not possible to cram everything in from such long books (I'll probably be dissapointed in OotP and HBP movies bc they'll have to cut so much out there too) But I'd watch a 6 hour HP movie just to 'see' it all! Ha Ha Ha Cant wait to see the next movie (they start filming in Feb) Should be some great visuals in there like the Ministry of Magic/Dept of Mysteries/12 Grimmauld Place and St Mungos...

When you all see the movie, please post your reactions! I know I'll see it again (and then again possibly, saw POA 4 times...ha ha)


Dawn

Yes, my daughter wished the graveyard scene was longer. She said the movie felt like a Cliff Notes version. I can't decide if I want to see it this weekend or wait until she is home next weekend and go with her. She won't mind seeing it again...and again...and again.

Am I the only one who doesn't care for these books, or the movies? They bore me to tears. And the kid who plays Harry is a horrendously bad actor. His face seems to register one expression that covers every emotion: he opens his eyes very wide and clenches his jaw.

(No offense to all HP fans, my daughter being one of them. I'm actually happy about any book that gets kids to read.)

I loved Alfonso Cuarón's directing... it was such a relief when they changed from Chris Columbus, who did a terrible, rather simplistic job. (IMO) I haven't seen this new movie, but I can't see Mike Newell being able to generate the proper graceful spookiness. I especially loved the transitions from scene to scene which were absent in CC's movie. I hope GoF is not just a thriller, computer generated, action type movie.

I agree! I never thought he was a good enough actor and always seemed to have just the one emotion. It is very obvious to me that Daniel Radcliff comes from a very loving home and does not have the proper acting skills to portray a child with any deep pain.

CFSSDawn, do you have an opinion on my question about someone else being with Voldemort that night at Godric’s Hollow?

I'm probably the only one who is going to admit to this but I hope that GofF ISN'T overly dark.
I enjoy Harry Potter books and movies because they aren't as heavy on the "adult" (with all the insulting implications that adults are all miserable black souled people) stuff as...say...some depressing crime or "ambivalent relationship" drama.

I'm hoping that whoever directs this film won't go apes**t with trying to create some sort of self consciously film school-y "high art" production.
Harry Potter is what it is. A story of good vs. evil with a young protagonist and some magic thrown in for fun...not about how many creative scene transitions you pack in. One or two is okay but I felt it became distracting in Azkaban.

It's like Harold Pinter trying to pack depth and angst into a Nancy Drew story.
Some things just call for the talents of a Carolyn Keene.

--and I mean no disrespect to all those who enjoy the darker aspects of Potterana.

We'll be seeing it, as we have seen all of them so far. But I'm not all that into it, or excited about it. I don't really care for this genre of films.

I'm not sure...I'm guessing Wormtail might have been there since he was the Secret Keeper who flapped his lips...and we now know that Snape was the one who overheard the prophecy... but I'm not sure if anyone else would have been there. I want to know why Voldomort wanted to kill the Potters, was it just because of the prophecy? or bc the Potters were part of the Order? No one has said yet what his parent actually did for a living. did they work for the Ministry as Aurors?? They left Harry with quite a bit of gold...(and now Harry has added to that with Sirius's estate).


About the movie, I dont think it was as scary as people were making it out to be...more suprising really and Def a Cliff Notes version of the book. I'm sure JKR made sure that nothing of any real signifigance is kept out of the movies. As she has screenplay approval. It'd be nice to have a movie with everything in it, but lets be realistic here... besides I love to read more than watch a movie, so I'm glad the books are longer. There were a few inaccuracies with GOF...like where you start to see Barty Crouch Jr. but the house elves are expensive to create, so the Winky and the S.P.E.W storylines were out. The special effects were quite amazing but they didnt overtake on real acting, I felt there was a good balance. I wish the Quiddich World Cup Scene was longer though...that staduim was incredible.


Dawn

We just got back from seeing it. Gotta say I'm in love with Neville. He's a sweet guy, and his waltz number from the soundtrack is very pretty.

Good movie, a bit slow in places and missing a lot of stuff.
Sadly, Cedric's death kind of got swallowed up in the ensuing action but I felt terrible for Amos, Cedric's dad. You could tell they were supposed to be terribly close and had a great relationship.

No, Mary, darlin'...you're NOT the only one! :-D *LOL*
I've never been able to sit through more than about three minutes (at home/I would never pay to see them!) when the movies are on.

I'm the same way with the "Lord of the Rings" movies, too, though.
My friends have even tried to FORCE me to watch them...and after about twenty minutes...I'm out like a light.

Saw it yesterday. There is no topping Alfonso Cuaron's sense of eeriness. The third film was better in that sense. I think it may be the Hispanic comfort with death and darkness - that they can actually incorporate it into life and art so seemlessly. But this was good, the Goblets of Fire.

I like these stories. Rowling's writing gets better and better crafted. It's pleasant to watch her develop as a story-telling writer.

We all went to see it yesterday. My daughter (age 20) was seeing it for the second time. She said it didn't seem as fast the second time (like it was blitzing through the story.)

We all liked it. I was pleasantly surprised that there were only a couple of places where I covered my kids' eyes (age 7 and 10.)

I thought the special effects were particularly seamless. I too loved the stadium. Amazing.

We particularly liked the first part of the tournament with the dragon and the last with the hedge(s.)

"No magic can bring back a person who is dead." Yet they were all there helping Harry. So, how will D. be there to help him in the last book, if he is.

I'm not convinced hes dead...I still think he faked it!!!


Dawn

I am in total agreement... D is not dead. Although I think he may die (for real) in the last book.

I thought it was faked too...or that he had the power to protect himself which is why he asked Snape to do it.

It's interesting how the loss of a peripheral character, Cedrick, can be so sad -- most especially how Harry mourned him and Cedrick's father.

Having children, I don't even want to go there -- to the loss of one of my kids.

I love the HP books and movies up until now. Karin, I too thought this one was like the cliffnotes version. It skimmed over the story. I'm not a film-maker so I can't possibly know the difficulty of making such a huge story into a film. I think it fell short. I would have loved to see more of Ralph Fiennes and Gary Oldam. The Weasley mother (I forget the actresses name) didn't even appear at all. I was disappointed that so much was cut. The story is so rich and vibrant, normally.

Julie Walters played Mrs Weasly...she was great! Perfect for the part, as was Mark Williams for Mr. Weasly! I like the Dursleys too... the actors are great, especially Fiona Shaw!


I'm sure we'll see Mr & Mrs Weasly in the next movie...kinda hard to have a OotP movie with out them... they play much bigger roles next time around...



Dawn

I just got home from seeing it. And I re-read all your posts, and truthfully I don't know what you guys are talking about. I have seen all the movies, but I guess I just don't retain the details. All I know is Valdemor killed harry's parents and left a scar and transfered some power. That's about it.

This one did seem better than the others to me.

For a lighter take on Harry Potter:

Harry Potter and the Hogwarts Dance Team

Victoria, I LOVE your avatar. That cat is SOOOOOcute. Sorry to go off topic but I just had to say it.

That was adorable! Ha Ha


Dawn

I think Dumbledore is a phoenix.

I think Harry is a horicrux (can't look up the spelling right now).

And I think Voldemort in this latest movie reminds me of the English patient with a bad attitude and no nose. I love Ralph Fiennes, but the connection almost made me laugh out loud.

He's not... JKR has said he is not.

That's funny!

Really? I'm glad.

Finally saw the movie last night - had been resolutely staying away from this thread until then. Really enjoyed it - GoF is one of my favourite books in the series (HBP is the other). I thought the movie was very cleverly adapted from the book, and the things they added (mainly the angst-ridden teenage interactions) were really well done.

I am a total Harry Potter GEEK, and I will no doubt post some more thoughts later when I have a bit more time.

OK - have gathered thoughts a bit. (There's so much going on in this thread!)

Personally I think Dumbledore is dead, but I'd be quite happy to be proved wrong. I think Fawkes, and D's patronus being a phoenix has got to be significant somehow . . .

I've just seen the GoF movie, and just LURVE Alan Rickman's Snape, so right now I am under the influence of 'Charismatic Actor Syndrome' and want to believe he's a good guy. I think he could be. But then maybe not. JK is the Queen of Equivocation! (Yes, I have re-read all the books looking for Snape clues.)

Who was at Godric's Hollow? Here's my two Knuts'-worth: Snape heard half of the prophecy and went and told Voldemort. V then had to choose which child to kill. When he set off to take out the Potters (speculation begins here), Snape was horrified, because of his mysterious history with Lily. Snape rushed off to warn her and then . . I dunno.

I think the Invisibility Cloak could possibly be a Horcrux - why did James give it to Dumbledore BEFORE he died? (OK, this one is far-fetched.) Or else it's the Sorting Hat. (Almost too obvious, that one.)

I'm convinced RAB is Regulus Black.

If you want every possible theory, the Mugglenet editorials have them ALL!

If you want to relive classic GoF movie moments, check out this thread:
http://www.leakylounge.com/cgi-bin/ikonboa...51;t=19396;st=0

The GoF movie had a LOT of humour in it (as did the book). Mike Newell did a great job - he's probably best known as the director of Four Weddings and a Funeral. I only wish Ron wasn't made so much of a doofus in the movies - in the books, he always explains 'magical community' stuff to Harry, but in the movies, Hermione takes all his lines. (Ron's my fave character, closely followed by all the rest of the Weasleys, and Lupin.)

D is not dead!


When asked about that... JKR has said he is NOT a very nice guy. I think Alan Rickman is doing something wrong to make us all think he is kind of sexy. JKR has said that Snape is not appealing.

Snape intrigues me because he is so nasty yet his actions are to the contrary. Do you think D has him under some kind of spell... so he has to be loyal to the OotP?

That's interesting! I hadn't thought of that. Why did he do that, I wonder. Think of how many times that Cloak has been taken away or left in a corridor.

D is not dead... you will see in the last book.

Snape may well have made an Unbreakable Vow to D about being loyal to the Order or fighting V. What disturbs me in the 'Spinner's End' chapter is the way he is implicated in the murder of Emmeline Vance. I really hope he's lying. (Even though he murders Dumbledore! Or not . . )

I have heard of a website called dumbledoreisnotdead.com. Have not checked it out myself, but you might wish to.

I dont think Snape is appealing in the movies...i just dont think he's slimy enough, but I very much think Alan Rickman (who is just a WONDERFUL actor) is underplaying his slimyness until the next couple of books where hes really horrible during Occulmency lessons and of course in HBP when hes all sneaky with Narcissa Black



I'm not convinced that there is a 'mysterious history with lily'...could be....but i haven't decided yet... she seemed indifferent to him in snapes memory...and if it was his memory and he really liked her or something, wouldnt that have been apparent?? Snape would have had his real feelings in that memory since he wasn't expecting anyone else to see them. They would have been truthful.


Dawn

Not necessarily a romantic history - but remember how Snape's old Potions book helped Harry, and how that reminded Slughorn so strongly of Lily? Maybe they were fellow Potions geeks. I think there is some connection there. Also (back to romance), Snape expressed a low opinion of Lily aged fifteen, but in the same incident she was very insulting towards James, and we all know how that ended up. ;-)

And have you noticed in the movies that the actresses who play Lily and Ginny look similar? I am really looking forward to Ginny coming out of her shell in the 5th movie, because by Book 6 she's quite a catch! The 'In the Hog's Head' chapter in OotP (when the DA is formed) is one of my fave moments in the book.