Britney Spears' sister Jamie Lynn announced she is pregnant. The father is her "longtime boyfriend." She's 16.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories
I never even heard of Jamie Lynn Spears until I saw this article but it fascinated me from a sociological point of view.
Full Version: It Runs In The Family
I have heard of her as my children watch the tv Zoey 101.
I can't think of anything less fascinating.
Biologically speaking, Miss Spears is right on target.
This waiting until you are 40 to have a child is really a fairly new cultural phenomenon in human history. Peaple are made to begin reproducing at right around Jamie Lynn's age. It's how we most of us got here if you look back a few generations.
Anyhoo, nobody needs worry about money or Jamie Lynn being unable to afford the child---which is pretty much the main problem most people have with early pregnancy---the fact that it limits the ability to continue training in a society in which educational specialization and years of it have become necessities for getting any sort of decent job.
Luckily the entertainment industry has allowed Jamie to dodge that bullet, so she's able to do what most young people are driven by nature to do at the time the drive is strongest. Bombs away!
This waiting until you are 40 to have a child is really a fairly new cultural phenomenon in human history. Peaple are made to begin reproducing at right around Jamie Lynn's age. It's how we most of us got here if you look back a few generations.
Anyhoo, nobody needs worry about money or Jamie Lynn being unable to afford the child---which is pretty much the main problem most people have with early pregnancy---the fact that it limits the ability to continue training in a society in which educational specialization and years of it have become necessities for getting any sort of decent job.
Luckily the entertainment industry has allowed Jamie to dodge that bullet, so she's able to do what most young people are driven by nature to do at the time the drive is strongest. Bombs away!
Their mom is planning to write a book about how to be a good mom.
"longtime boyfriend?" The article I read about this last night said she had just done an interview where she said she is happily single and just "hanging around" with a bunch of male friends. Curious who the dad really is.
I was also wondering about how Nickelodeon will react. They are the network for her TV show, and she's an unwed pregnant teenager starring on a children's television network. Nick tries pretty hard to maintain some level of protection for kids, I think, and I am curious to see how/if they respond to this.
I was also wondering about how Nickelodeon will react. They are the network for her TV show, and she's an unwed pregnant teenager starring on a children's television network. Nick tries pretty hard to maintain some level of protection for kids, I think, and I am curious to see how/if they respond to this.
Well she's trash behaving like trash, just like her sister. Not surprising. Neither of those two girls had any real parenting - the mom is a stage mother who has always been more concerned with the money her kids could make than with their well-being.
As for saying that 16-year-olds should have kids because in the past people married and had kids very young and there is a biological imperative at work to make them want to have sex, well I disagree with that. (It's true they want to have sex of course but that is not a good reason to have kids very young).
Most 16-year-olds are nowhere near prepared emotionally or financially to have children, and just because teenagers are horny doesn't mean it is a good idea for them to have kids. In the past, women were married off young for a number of reasons: the life expectancy was shorter so everything took place earlier, women were expected to have as many kids as possible and to start having them young because not all children survived, and families of origin would want the daughters married off to get them out of the house so another family would have to provide for them (among other reasons). My own grandmother was one of eight daughters and she was under heavy pressure to get married at a young age, as were all her sisters - big families cost money.
But that was nearly a hundred years ago. Britney Spears' sister getting pregnant now, at the age of 16, is simple irresponsibility. Her parents' irresponsibility in not raising her right (really, not raising her at all), and her own irresponsibility. She certainly had access to birth control. I wouldn't be surprised if both she and Britney are grandmothers before the age of 45.
As for saying that 16-year-olds should have kids because in the past people married and had kids very young and there is a biological imperative at work to make them want to have sex, well I disagree with that. (It's true they want to have sex of course but that is not a good reason to have kids very young).
Most 16-year-olds are nowhere near prepared emotionally or financially to have children, and just because teenagers are horny doesn't mean it is a good idea for them to have kids. In the past, women were married off young for a number of reasons: the life expectancy was shorter so everything took place earlier, women were expected to have as many kids as possible and to start having them young because not all children survived, and families of origin would want the daughters married off to get them out of the house so another family would have to provide for them (among other reasons). My own grandmother was one of eight daughters and she was under heavy pressure to get married at a young age, as were all her sisters - big families cost money.
But that was nearly a hundred years ago. Britney Spears' sister getting pregnant now, at the age of 16, is simple irresponsibility. Her parents' irresponsibility in not raising her right (really, not raising her at all), and her own irresponsibility. She certainly had access to birth control. I wouldn't be surprised if both she and Britney are grandmothers before the age of 45.
Reminds me of the kids I went to high school with. In eastern Appalachia. The Spears have more money, but it's the same culture.
Agree that being biologically able to have kids is a rotten reason to have them.
Agree that being biologically able to have kids is a rotten reason to have them.
It's true that there's a gap between the biological age for children and the idealized societal criteria for providing a good home for a child. The latter involves two parents present, financial stability, emotional stability. A dream for many. It's good this young lady has the bucks to raise a child and possibly some family support but the whole scenario of the teenage unwed mom does not appeal to me.
My mom had me when she was 42, she was a lousy self serving excuse of a parent. I married @ 19, had my first kid when I was 20, and I think I rock as a mom. Not all of us are built the same, maturity doesn't always coincide with cronological age. Just my $.02
QUOTE (nakedcity @ Dec 19 2007, 01:06 PM) 
My mom had me when she was 42, she was a lousy self serving excuse of a parent. I married @ 19, had my first kid when I was 20, and I think I rock as a mom. Not all of us are built the same, maturity doesn't always coincide with cronological age. Just my $.02
There are always exceptions, Naked! I also see an immense difference between a 20-year-old having babies and a 16-year-old. Granted, sometimes it works out great. But by and large, a 16-year-old is not equipped emotionally, financially, or maturity-wise to do best for a child. And not just the baby, by the by!! It means the mom misses out on a crucial time of social development, etc., but being an insta-mom, which is not so great for her in the long run, either.
I know some kids do a great job raising babies -- especially if they have a supportive and loving family. But odds are not really in their favor. It's a tough row to hoe. I especially hate seeing it in a case like this where you KNOW they had the resources available to avoid it.
And finally, to Five-O, I would add that the thing that makes me sadder than a 16-year-old unwed mother is a 16-year-old WEDDED mother, as I really don't think most 16-year-olds are equipped to make a viable, sane commitment to a life partner. I hate seeing kids add insult to injury by rushing into a quickie marriage as the result of a teen pregnancy.
Course, that's just me.
I just read this story online last night. Hasn't she heard of birth control? Britney always was ignorant and I guess that ignorance does run in the family.
Also, just wanted to add, not everyone had kids early, even in the olden days!!
My maternal grandmother had her two kids when she was 26 and 31, and my paternal grandmother had her only kid at the age of 34!! My parents, too, had kids fairly late, in that my mother was 30, 33, and 36 when we were born. We have LOOOOOOOONG generations in my family.
(Unintentionally, I followed the pattern, and had my 2 kids at 38 and 40.)
My maternal grandmother had her two kids when she was 26 and 31, and my paternal grandmother had her only kid at the age of 34!! My parents, too, had kids fairly late, in that my mother was 30, 33, and 36 when we were born. We have LOOOOOOOONG generations in my family.
(Unintentionally, I followed the pattern, and had my 2 kids at 38 and 40.)
QUOTE (rockinruby @ Dec 19 2007, 01:26 PM)
And finally, to Five-O, I would add that the thing that makes me sadder than a 16-year-old unwed mother is a 16-year-old WEDDED mother, as I really don't think most 16-year-olds are equipped to make a viable, sane commitment to a life partner. I hate seeing kids add insult to injury by rushing into a quickie marriage as the result of a teen pregnancy.
Course, that's just me.
Righto, ruby! It's not just you. ITA. Both alternatives are not advisable.
QUOTE
Britney always was ignorant and I guess that ignorance does run in the family.
Fertility, too ...
QUOTE (Demetrue @ Dec 19 2007, 03:22 PM)
Fertility, too ...
Ha! So true.
Imagine in a few years what it'll be like when Britney's kids and Jamie Lyn's kids get together? It'll be a collection of ticky-tacky-trashy cousins from Trashity Trash Land. They may have money to burn, but they're clearly missing some brains.
QUOTE (rockinruby @ Dec 19 2007, 09:37 AM)
"longtime boyfriend?" The article I read about this last night said she had just done an interview where she said she is happily single and just "hanging around" with a bunch of male friends. Curious who the dad really is.
I bet she is, too.
MEOW! :-D
QUOTE (Fulltiltredhead @ Dec 19 2007, 04:10 PM)
I bet she is, too.
MEOW! :-D
MEOW! :-D
REER!!!!!!!!! SSSsssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!
QUOTE (Fulltiltredhead @ Dec 19 2007, 05:10 PM)
I bet she is, too.
Oh Snapple.
What I originally meant when I put "longtime boyfriend" in quotes is she's only sixteen. How longtime could any boyfriend be? There's an offhand assumption here that if you're together two or three years it's a long relationship! I think it speaks to the unstable world of entertainment they move in.
{{snicker}}
What do you all expect with a sister like Brit to look up to? Now there's a role model.
What do you all expect with a sister like Brit to look up to? Now there's a role model.
QUOTE (Fulltiltredhead @ Dec 19 2007, 04:10 PM)
I bet she is, too.
MEOW! :-D
MEOW! :-D
QUOTE (FiveoaksBouquet @ Dec 19 2007, 07:26 PM)
What I originally meant when I put "longtime boyfriend" in quotes is she's only sixteen. How longtime could any boyfriend be? There's an offhand assumption here that if you're together two or three years it's a long relationship! I think it speaks to the unstable world of entertainment they move in.
Although 2-3 years is generally considered a long relationship for anyone under 30, I really doubt they've been living together or navigating the stresses of their school and work lives as a couple... y'know, doing the things that would make a 2-3 year relationship a long & real bond.
Ugh, mama Spears (can I hear a "which one?" from everybody in the house?) should be laughed off the book circuit. The only appropriate way to have dealt with this was an attentive doctor supervising use of RU486. I'm sure she's heard of birth control, but whoever prescribed it should have taken a look at the family IQ and pushed the implant or an IUD. Maybe it was intentional-- big sis gets a lot of attention with her uterus. Or maybe BC just failed. What a mess.
I bet Britney is furious, not only did she found out through the tabloids and blogs, but her sis is stealing her spotlight. Why do these unwed celebs and celebutantes feel the need to HAVE the baby? Like Nicole Richie, Lily Allen, Jessica Alba, etc., it all seems very orchestrated - and NOT because they are considering the baby first (Lily Allen's still smoking).
I think they are considering the MEDIA first. What's next, Paris and divorced-not-divorced Pamela Anderson pregnant, so they can be part of the "look at me, I can reproduce" club?
I think they are considering the MEDIA first. What's next, Paris and divorced-not-divorced Pamela Anderson pregnant, so they can be part of the "look at me, I can reproduce" club?
Maybe Nickelodeon should take the opportunity to create a storyline about her character, but have her give up the baby to a loving couple.
As a mother of a 16 year old daughter myself, my experience has been that I have had to keep a very watchful eye on the little THANG.
She has always been a part of a group of kids who are mostly boys. If I hadn't been paying attention, I'd not have noticed that one of those boys just happened to be her 'boyfriend'. This was something that she had not volunteered to share with me.
So i sat her down one day not all that long ago and told her that she was growing up and that there was a chance that sex might soon be playing a part of her relationships. I told her that I hoped she would wait until she was older, but I also gave her an open door to come to me if she hadn't planned to wait. I said that I would be happy to talk with her about what options might be available and that we would work together to ensure that she stays safe and healthy, and that I REALLY wanted to wait a while longer before any 'little person' started calling me "Grandma". (I'm not all that young but certainly WAAAAY too young for that!) 'Daughter' nodded and concurred.
The next day, I sat down on the sofa to work on an afghan I've been crocheting for someone, and the second I picked up the crochet hook, she ('daughter') practically ran over to me and plopped down next to me. "Mom, I'm ready to have the conversation now!" *gulp* And we did.
Back to the little Spears girl, I can see how Moms can overlook certain things if they are not paying VERY close attention to their teenagers. It doesnt mean she is a bad mom. We are human and well, we humans make mistakes. I can certainly see how "Mom" Spears might have been distracted. After all, look at the things her older daughter has been going thru.
Right or wrong, this kind of thing just happens. It doesnt make us bad people. Only human. And goodness knows how many stupid mistakes I myself have made along the way! Yikes!
Just my two cents.
She has always been a part of a group of kids who are mostly boys. If I hadn't been paying attention, I'd not have noticed that one of those boys just happened to be her 'boyfriend'. This was something that she had not volunteered to share with me.
So i sat her down one day not all that long ago and told her that she was growing up and that there was a chance that sex might soon be playing a part of her relationships. I told her that I hoped she would wait until she was older, but I also gave her an open door to come to me if she hadn't planned to wait. I said that I would be happy to talk with her about what options might be available and that we would work together to ensure that she stays safe and healthy, and that I REALLY wanted to wait a while longer before any 'little person' started calling me "Grandma". (I'm not all that young but certainly WAAAAY too young for that!) 'Daughter' nodded and concurred.
The next day, I sat down on the sofa to work on an afghan I've been crocheting for someone, and the second I picked up the crochet hook, she ('daughter') practically ran over to me and plopped down next to me. "Mom, I'm ready to have the conversation now!" *gulp* And we did.
Back to the little Spears girl, I can see how Moms can overlook certain things if they are not paying VERY close attention to their teenagers. It doesnt mean she is a bad mom. We are human and well, we humans make mistakes. I can certainly see how "Mom" Spears might have been distracted. After all, look at the things her older daughter has been going thru.
Right or wrong, this kind of thing just happens. It doesnt make us bad people. Only human. And goodness knows how many stupid mistakes I myself have made along the way! Yikes!
Just my two cents.
QUOTE (LisasAura @ Dec 19 2007, 07:43 PM)
I bet Britney is furious, not only did she found out through the tabloids and blogs, but her sis is stealing her spotlight. Why do these unwed celebs and celebutantes feel the need to HAVE the baby? Like Nicole Richie, Lily Allen, Jessica Alba, etc., it all seems very orchestrated - and NOT because they are considering the baby first (Lily Allen's still smoking).
I think they are considering the MEDIA first. What's next, Paris and divorced-not-divorced Pamela Anderson pregnant, so they can be part of the "look at me, I can reproduce" club?
I think they are considering the MEDIA first. What's next, Paris and divorced-not-divorced Pamela Anderson pregnant, so they can be part of the "look at me, I can reproduce" club?
You are quite right on the mark about that. Her sister was paid $1 million dollars for her exclusive bombshell news and even paid more when she gives birth. Now the focus will be on Jamie and she will probably be the breadwinner of the family. It is all about competition, so I read.
Jamie Spears
QUOTE (amjack @ Dec 20 2007, 08:53 AM)
Back to the little Spears girl, I can see how Moms can overlook certain things if they are not paying VERY close attention to their teenagers. It doesnt mean she is a bad mom. We are human and well, we humans make mistakes. I can certainly see how "Mom" Spears might have been distracted. After all, look at the things her older daughter has been going thru.
Right or wrong, this kind of thing just happens. It doesnt make us bad people. Only human. And goodness knows how many stupid mistakes I myself have made along the way! Yikes!
Just my two cents.
Right or wrong, this kind of thing just happens. It doesnt make us bad people. Only human. And goodness knows how many stupid mistakes I myself have made along the way! Yikes!
Just my two cents.
I agree. I am a mom of a 3 year old and I am not in the position now to judge her mom. I came to realize today. I honestly feel bad for their mom. Who am I to judge her mothering skills. I am not perfect - heck no one is perfect. Parenting is a hard job. I am sure she tried her best in what she knows. What kind of surprises will I be facing when my daughter turns 13 and so on. Excellent on your job on keeping a close eye on your daughter and picking up the clues that she has a 'boyfriend'.
Another example of "lack of parenting" in the formative years. As I always say, money does not give one class!
Let us not forget, the mother pushed the two girls into show business. A small child cannot pursue a "career" as a performer without some cooperation from an adult parent or caretaker.
The "parenting" the Spears girls (and the Lohan girls too) received was lousy and inadequate at best and I would even describe it as nonexistent and negligent, if not abusive. Their mother acted more as an agent or manager than as a caring parent, by pushing them in front of the cameras. Their childhoods were extremely abnormal - it's not normal to be the breadwinner of a family while still a child. It's not normal for a kid to have adult pressures and access to huge amounts of money and be surrounded by adults who are either telling her "you must do this" or are *ss-kissers who say "yes" to any request (and one's own mother should not be one of the *ss-kissers!). It's not normal for a kid or teenager to have the kind of public adulation and attention and the illusion of freedom from consequences that these two have had. It's no wonder they are so messed up.
Now there are small children who are suffering/will suffer; a third generation of severe dysfunction. I feel terrible for Britney Spears' two boys and her sister's to-be-born child. What are their childhoods going to be like? That's why I have limited sympathy for Britney and her sister - because they are bringing innocent children into this nightmare.
Lynne Spears is not a mother who has been doing her best and despite her caring efforts and loving parenting something went very wrong. She did this to her daughters.
The "parenting" the Spears girls (and the Lohan girls too) received was lousy and inadequate at best and I would even describe it as nonexistent and negligent, if not abusive. Their mother acted more as an agent or manager than as a caring parent, by pushing them in front of the cameras. Their childhoods were extremely abnormal - it's not normal to be the breadwinner of a family while still a child. It's not normal for a kid to have adult pressures and access to huge amounts of money and be surrounded by adults who are either telling her "you must do this" or are *ss-kissers who say "yes" to any request (and one's own mother should not be one of the *ss-kissers!). It's not normal for a kid or teenager to have the kind of public adulation and attention and the illusion of freedom from consequences that these two have had. It's no wonder they are so messed up.
Now there are small children who are suffering/will suffer; a third generation of severe dysfunction. I feel terrible for Britney Spears' two boys and her sister's to-be-born child. What are their childhoods going to be like? That's why I have limited sympathy for Britney and her sister - because they are bringing innocent children into this nightmare.
Lynne Spears is not a mother who has been doing her best and despite her caring efforts and loving parenting something went very wrong. She did this to her daughters.
The sad thing is that bad parenting or lack of parenting makes future generations the same way..........the gift that keeps on giving. Oh don't even get me started on parenting. As everyone knows (Psych Adolescent RN) here.........I still say there are no bad kids, just bad parents.
Good heavens, I get ill just thinking about it!
Good heavens, I get ill just thinking about it!
O.k., I'm just going to say this, knowing that it will ruin my "reputation" (what little I have,) here at POL, LOL!!
I'm not trash, I had "good" parents, "A BOYFRIEND," and I'm just darn lucky that I never turned up pregnant at 16. It could have very easily happened to me (and I was never on birth control - this was the mid 70's.) Granted, my mom never sat me down and gave me "the talk," but I don't blame her for the bad decisions I made. She was a good mom.
I'm not approving of Jamie Lynn's actions (if I could do it all over again, I would definately make wiser choices.) But I wasn't wise then. I was young, stupid, and "madly in love."
Of course, it's a lot easier to get birth control now than it used to be. If she's going to be intimate with someone again, maybe next time she will be more careful...
I'm not trash, I had "good" parents, "A BOYFRIEND," and I'm just darn lucky that I never turned up pregnant at 16. It could have very easily happened to me (and I was never on birth control - this was the mid 70's.) Granted, my mom never sat me down and gave me "the talk," but I don't blame her for the bad decisions I made. She was a good mom.
I'm not approving of Jamie Lynn's actions (if I could do it all over again, I would definately make wiser choices.) But I wasn't wise then. I was young, stupid, and "madly in love."
Of course, it's a lot easier to get birth control now than it used to be. If she's going to be intimate with someone again, maybe next time she will be more careful...
QUOTE (nubka @ Dec 20 2007, 07:40 PM)
O.k., I'm just going to say this, knowing that it will ruin my "reputation" (what little I have,) here at POL, LOL!!
I'm not trash, I had "good" parents, "A BOYFRIEND," and I'm just darn lucky that I never turned up pregnant at 16. It could have very easily happened to me (and I was never on birth control - this was the mid 70's.) Granted, my mom never sat me down and gave me "the talk," but I don't blame her for the bad decisions I made. She was a good mom.
I'm not approving of Jamie Lynn's actions (if I could do it all over again, I would definately make wiser choices.) But I wasn't wise then. I was young, stupid, and "madly in love."
Of course, it's a lot easier to get birth control now than it used to be. If she's going to be intimate with someone again, maybe next time she will be more careful...
I'm not trash, I had "good" parents, "A BOYFRIEND," and I'm just darn lucky that I never turned up pregnant at 16. It could have very easily happened to me (and I was never on birth control - this was the mid 70's.) Granted, my mom never sat me down and gave me "the talk," but I don't blame her for the bad decisions I made. She was a good mom.
I'm not approving of Jamie Lynn's actions (if I could do it all over again, I would definately make wiser choices.) But I wasn't wise then. I was young, stupid, and "madly in love."
Of course, it's a lot easier to get birth control now than it used to be. If she's going to be intimate with someone again, maybe next time she will be more careful...
Nubka, your reputation is perfectly safe! Anything of this nature that happened in the mid '70s doesn't count.
QUOTE (nubka @ Dec 20 2007, 06:40 PM)
O.k., I'm just going to say this, knowing that it will ruin my "reputation" (what little I have,) here at POL, LOL!!
I'm not trash, I had "good" parents, "A BOYFRIEND," and I'm just darn lucky that I never turned up pregnant at 16. It could have very easily happened to me (and I was never on birth control - this was the mid 70's.) Granted, my mom never sat me down and gave me "the talk," but I don't blame her for the bad decisions I made. She was a good mom.
I'm not approving of Jamie Lynn's actions (if I could do it all over again, I would definately make wiser choices.) But I wasn't wise then. I was young, stupid, and "madly in love."
Of course, it's a lot easier to get birth control now than it used to be. If she's going to be intimate with someone again, maybe next time she will be more careful...
I'm not trash, I had "good" parents, "A BOYFRIEND," and I'm just darn lucky that I never turned up pregnant at 16. It could have very easily happened to me (and I was never on birth control - this was the mid 70's.) Granted, my mom never sat me down and gave me "the talk," but I don't blame her for the bad decisions I made. She was a good mom.
I'm not approving of Jamie Lynn's actions (if I could do it all over again, I would definately make wiser choices.) But I wasn't wise then. I was young, stupid, and "madly in love."
Of course, it's a lot easier to get birth control now than it used to be. If she's going to be intimate with someone again, maybe next time she will be more careful...
THANK YOU!
Not everyone is a) perfect according to the current popular view of perfection or b) Satan because they are not perfect.
Lots of people are "poor" or Southern and they are NOT trash. God does not shine his face only upon upwardly mobile urbanites with intellectual pretensions.
If we don't like the "G" word, then let's just say that unless we are willing to fess up and just admit that OUR PERSONAL DEITY is contemporary public opinion, and the received wisdom from whoever the heck creates that contemporary public opinion maybe we could be a little accepting of people who DON'T kowtow to our lifestyle gods.
They aren't all trash, they aren't all stupid and they have their own reasons, reasons with which WE personally may have not had to grapple but reasons that within the context of their lives work for them.
The cookie cutter, one life choice fits all, crowd are the ones who lose reputation with ME, because those people are the very same folks who will prissily intone about how they made sure they got an "education" and how "enlightened" they are, yet they somehow, with all that edu-ma-cation, have managed to duck developing enough intellectual maturity or imagination to conceive that someone else might be laboring under a very different set of life circumstances or desires.
I say this as someone from a family that numbered quite a few people who were involved in the Spanish inquisition in its ranks. Those geezers truly believed that Catholicism was the one true road to heaven, and no one else stood a chance. Well, there are as many roads to as many heavens as there are people.
If we are confusing happiness, intelligence, morality with the ability to make money and have a house/couple of cars what have you, we should be brave enough not to lie to ourselves and pretend it's morality. Single parents do a hell of a lot better job than many "intact" families where in the interest of hanging onto that spurious social benefit of two in house parents, many people look the other way at sexual or emotional abuse.
Young parents just might be able to offer different, but just as compelling arguments for why they could make great parents as our current crop of older career oriented parents, after all we are the ones keeping our children artificially infantile to college years, and refusing to raise them as apprentice adults.
Ever wonder why Spring Break is such a rout?
Having the ability to make money and being over 30 no more makes you a good parent than it can make you fly.
For most young people raising a child is nearly impossible because of financial considerations. We refuse to even consider that someone who hasn't sat through college...like President Truman for example, could have the intelligence to pick up a freakin' pencil so we fob them off into McDonalds terminally dead end work that is a total waste of time from the worker's standpoint of self support.
Jamie Lynne is not in that boat, so who the heck cares as long as she wants and is loving to her child?
I'm not for teen pregnancy because of the financial problems involved. It's just too hard without family support, but the truth is that Jamie Lynne is HAVING a baby, not running around killing them.
QUOTE (nubka @ Dec 20 2007, 07:40 PM)
O.k., I'm just going to say this, knowing that it will ruin my "reputation" (what little I have,) here at POL, LOL!!
I'm not trash, I had "good" parents, "A BOYFRIEND," and I'm just darn lucky that I never turned up pregnant at 16. It could have very easily happened to me (and I was never on birth control - this was the mid 70's.) Granted, my mom never sat me down and gave me "the talk," but I don't blame her for the bad decisions I made. She was a good mom.
I'm not approving of Jamie Lynn's actions (if I could do it all over again, I would definately make wiser choices.) But I wasn't wise then. I was young, stupid, and "madly in love."
Of course, it's a lot easier to get birth control now than it used to be. If she's going to be intimate with someone again, maybe next time she will be more careful...
I'm not trash, I had "good" parents, "A BOYFRIEND," and I'm just darn lucky that I never turned up pregnant at 16. It could have very easily happened to me (and I was never on birth control - this was the mid 70's.) Granted, my mom never sat me down and gave me "the talk," but I don't blame her for the bad decisions I made. She was a good mom.
I'm not approving of Jamie Lynn's actions (if I could do it all over again, I would definately make wiser choices.) But I wasn't wise then. I was young, stupid, and "madly in love."
Of course, it's a lot easier to get birth control now than it used to be. If she's going to be intimate with someone again, maybe next time she will be more careful...
Nubka, when I was this girl's age, the only method available to me was the rhythm method or just keeping your legs closed! There are so many different methods of birth control available today that I find no excuse for not making one of them available. It is the most important job in the world, raising and being responsible for a human being and I personally feel that some young girls today put such little value on that. Britney is a train wreck and her children are better off without her. I hate to say it, but I hope that the little sister finds a good and loving home for the child she is bringing into the world.
QUOTE (CHARDKAY @ Dec 20 2007, 08:05 PM)
Nubka, when I was this girl's age, the only method available to me was the rhythm method or just keeping your legs closed! There are so many different methods of birth control available today that I find no excuse for not making one of them available. It is the most important job in the world, raising and being responsible for a human being and I personally feel that some young girls today put such little value on that. Britney is a train wreck and her children are better off without her. I hate to say it, but I hope that the little sister finds a good and loving home for the child she is bringing into the world.
When I was in high school (waaaaaaay back in the 70's,) I would have had to have gone to the doctor with one of my parents (EEEEK!!!) to get birth control. But I never really even thought about that option, anyway. I never thought about it at all, until it happened. I know that sounds stupid and naive, but that's how it was for me. I had no experience, and there was no real fooling around that "led up" to it, it just happened.
As I mentioned before, I'm not applauding Jamie's actions, just remembering what I was like at 16 (stupid decisions and all.) I agree that now-a-days, there isn't much excuse for a girl not to be on birth control, if she wants to be, since it's now a LOT easier to obtain.
Never underestimate the love of a teenager - it only takes a few minutes to end up pregnant, and birth control methods fail all the time. Even the most sensible and responsible kids I know have skated very close to the edge - the only failproof prevention I know of is constant parental vigilance and chaperoning. I have known kids who you never would have suspected as gettng themselves into such situations, get pregnant after being left along together for 20 minutes. And it's often the more mature, responsible and trustworthy kids that end up going down that path, as well as the totally naive, innocent ones. The life force and drive is very strong.
QUOTE (Little Black Cat @ Dec 21 2007, 01:44 PM)
THANK YOU!
Not everyone is a) perfect according to the current popular view of perfection or b) Satan because they are not perfect.
Lots of people are "poor" or Southern and they are NOT trash. God does not shine his face only upon upwardly mobile urbanites with intellectual pretensions.
If we don't like the "G" word, then let's just say that unless we are willing to fess up and just admit that OUR PERSONAL DEITY is contemporary public opinion, and the received wisdom from whoever the heck creates that contemporary public opinion maybe we could be a little accepting of people who DON'T kowtow to our lifestyle gods.
They aren't all trash, they aren't all stupid and they have their own reasons, reasons with which WE personally may have not had to grapple but reasons that within the context of their lives work for them.
The cookie cutter, one life choice fits all, crowd are the ones who lose reputation with ME, because those people are the very same folks who will prissily intone about how they made sure they got an "education" and how "enlightened" they are, yet they somehow, with all that edu-ma-cation, have managed to duck developing enough intellectual maturity or imagination to conceive that someone else might be laboring under a very different set of life circumstances or desires.
I agree , there is no formula, I wish her luck.
I say this as someone from a family that numbered quite a few people who were involved in the Spanish inquisition in its ranks. Those geezers truly believed that Catholicism was the one true road to heaven, and no one else stood a chance. Well, there are as many roads to as many heavens as there are people.
If we are confusing happiness, intelligence, morality with the ability to make money and have a house/couple of cars what have you, we should be brave enough not to lie to ourselves and pretend it's morality. Single parents do a hell of a lot better job than many "intact" families where in the interest of hanging onto that spurious social benefit of two in house parents, many people look the other way at sexual or emotional abuse.
Young parents just might be able to offer different, but just as compelling arguments for why they could make great parents as our current crop of older career oriented parents, after all we are the ones keeping our children artificially infantile to college years, and refusing to raise them as apprentice adults.
Ever wonder why Spring Break is such a rout?
Having the ability to make money and being over 30 no more makes you a good parent than it can make you fly.
For most young people raising a child is nearly impossible because of financial considerations. We refuse to even consider that someone who hasn't sat through college...like President Truman for example, could have the intelligence to pick up a freakin' pencil so we fob them off into McDonalds terminally dead end work that is a total waste of time from the worker's standpoint of self support.
Jamie Lynne is not in that boat, so who the heck cares as long as she wants and is loving to her child?
I'm not for teen pregnancy because of the financial problems involved. It's just too hard without family support, but the truth is that Jamie Lynne is HAVING a baby, not running around killing them.
Not everyone is a) perfect according to the current popular view of perfection or b) Satan because they are not perfect.
Lots of people are "poor" or Southern and they are NOT trash. God does not shine his face only upon upwardly mobile urbanites with intellectual pretensions.
If we don't like the "G" word, then let's just say that unless we are willing to fess up and just admit that OUR PERSONAL DEITY is contemporary public opinion, and the received wisdom from whoever the heck creates that contemporary public opinion maybe we could be a little accepting of people who DON'T kowtow to our lifestyle gods.
They aren't all trash, they aren't all stupid and they have their own reasons, reasons with which WE personally may have not had to grapple but reasons that within the context of their lives work for them.
The cookie cutter, one life choice fits all, crowd are the ones who lose reputation with ME, because those people are the very same folks who will prissily intone about how they made sure they got an "education" and how "enlightened" they are, yet they somehow, with all that edu-ma-cation, have managed to duck developing enough intellectual maturity or imagination to conceive that someone else might be laboring under a very different set of life circumstances or desires.
I agree , there is no formula, I wish her luck.
I say this as someone from a family that numbered quite a few people who were involved in the Spanish inquisition in its ranks. Those geezers truly believed that Catholicism was the one true road to heaven, and no one else stood a chance. Well, there are as many roads to as many heavens as there are people.
If we are confusing happiness, intelligence, morality with the ability to make money and have a house/couple of cars what have you, we should be brave enough not to lie to ourselves and pretend it's morality. Single parents do a hell of a lot better job than many "intact" families where in the interest of hanging onto that spurious social benefit of two in house parents, many people look the other way at sexual or emotional abuse.
Young parents just might be able to offer different, but just as compelling arguments for why they could make great parents as our current crop of older career oriented parents, after all we are the ones keeping our children artificially infantile to college years, and refusing to raise them as apprentice adults.
Ever wonder why Spring Break is such a rout?
Having the ability to make money and being over 30 no more makes you a good parent than it can make you fly.
For most young people raising a child is nearly impossible because of financial considerations. We refuse to even consider that someone who hasn't sat through college...like President Truman for example, could have the intelligence to pick up a freakin' pencil so we fob them off into McDonalds terminally dead end work that is a total waste of time from the worker's standpoint of self support.
Jamie Lynne is not in that boat, so who the heck cares as long as she wants and is loving to her child?
I'm not for teen pregnancy because of the financial problems involved. It's just too hard without family support, but the truth is that Jamie Lynne is HAVING a baby, not running around killing them.
I agree with your post, LIttleBlackCat there is no one formula, and I wish her lots of happiness.
Things can turn out just fine, provided there will not be drugs and alcohol around her.
Things can turn out just fine, provided there will not be drugs and alcohol around her.
Sorry, but I do have a problem with her 'releasing' the story to the highest bidder, $1 million dollars.
QUOTE (CHARDKAY @ Dec 22 2007, 09:19 AM)
Sorry, but I do have a problem with her 'releasing' the story to the highest bidder, $1 million dollars.
That it bizarre.
QUOTE (CHARDKAY @ Dec 21 2007, 04:19 PM)
Sorry, but I do have a problem with her 'releasing' the story to the highest bidder, $1 million dollars.
Was her mother the one that made that deal? That would be even more shameful.
QUOTE (Little Black Cat @ Dec 20 2007, 09:44 PM)
THANK YOU!
Not everyone is a) perfect according to the current popular view of perfection or b) Satan because they are not perfect.
Lots of people are "poor" or Southern and they are NOT trash. God does not shine his face only upon upwardly mobile urbanites with intellectual pretensions.
If we don't like the "G" word, then let's just say that unless we are willing to fess up and just admit that OUR PERSONAL DEITY is contemporary public opinion, and the received wisdom from whoever the heck creates that contemporary public opinion maybe we could be a little accepting of people who DON'T kowtow to our lifestyle gods.
They aren't all trash, they aren't all stupid and they have their own reasons, reasons with which WE personally may have not had to grapple but reasons that within the context of their lives work for them.
The cookie cutter, one life choice fits all, crowd are the ones who lose reputation with ME, because those people are the very same folks who will prissily intone about how they made sure they got an "education" and how "enlightened" they are, yet they somehow, with all that edu-ma-cation, have managed to duck developing enough intellectual maturity or imagination to conceive that someone else might be laboring under a very different set of life circumstances or desires.
I say this as someone from a family that numbered quite a few people who were involved in the Spanish inquisition in its ranks. Those geezers truly believed that Catholicism was the one true road to heaven, and no one else stood a chance. Well, there are as many roads to as many heavens as there are people.
If we are confusing happiness, intelligence, morality with the ability to make money and have a house/couple of cars what have you, we should be brave enough not to lie to ourselves and pretend it's morality. Single parents do a hell of a lot better job than many "intact" families where in the interest of hanging onto that spurious social benefit of two in house parents, many people look the other way at sexual or emotional abuse.
Young parents just might be able to offer different, but just as compelling arguments for why they could make great parents as our current crop of older career oriented parents, after all we are the ones keeping our children artificially infantile to college years, and refusing to raise them as apprentice adults.
Ever wonder why Spring Break is such a rout?
Having the ability to make money and being over 30 no more makes you a good parent than it can make you fly.
For most young people raising a child is nearly impossible because of financial considerations. We refuse to even consider that someone who hasn't sat through college...like President Truman for example, could have the intelligence to pick up a freakin' pencil so we fob them off into McDonalds terminally dead end work that is a total waste of time from the worker's standpoint of self support.
Jamie Lynne is not in that boat, so who the heck cares as long as she wants and is loving to her child?
I'm not for teen pregnancy because of the financial problems involved. It's just too hard without family support, but the truth is that Jamie Lynne is HAVING a baby, not running around killing them.
Not everyone is a) perfect according to the current popular view of perfection or b) Satan because they are not perfect.
Lots of people are "poor" or Southern and they are NOT trash. God does not shine his face only upon upwardly mobile urbanites with intellectual pretensions.
If we don't like the "G" word, then let's just say that unless we are willing to fess up and just admit that OUR PERSONAL DEITY is contemporary public opinion, and the received wisdom from whoever the heck creates that contemporary public opinion maybe we could be a little accepting of people who DON'T kowtow to our lifestyle gods.
They aren't all trash, they aren't all stupid and they have their own reasons, reasons with which WE personally may have not had to grapple but reasons that within the context of their lives work for them.
The cookie cutter, one life choice fits all, crowd are the ones who lose reputation with ME, because those people are the very same folks who will prissily intone about how they made sure they got an "education" and how "enlightened" they are, yet they somehow, with all that edu-ma-cation, have managed to duck developing enough intellectual maturity or imagination to conceive that someone else might be laboring under a very different set of life circumstances or desires.
I say this as someone from a family that numbered quite a few people who were involved in the Spanish inquisition in its ranks. Those geezers truly believed that Catholicism was the one true road to heaven, and no one else stood a chance. Well, there are as many roads to as many heavens as there are people.
If we are confusing happiness, intelligence, morality with the ability to make money and have a house/couple of cars what have you, we should be brave enough not to lie to ourselves and pretend it's morality. Single parents do a hell of a lot better job than many "intact" families where in the interest of hanging onto that spurious social benefit of two in house parents, many people look the other way at sexual or emotional abuse.
Young parents just might be able to offer different, but just as compelling arguments for why they could make great parents as our current crop of older career oriented parents, after all we are the ones keeping our children artificially infantile to college years, and refusing to raise them as apprentice adults.
Ever wonder why Spring Break is such a rout?
Having the ability to make money and being over 30 no more makes you a good parent than it can make you fly.
For most young people raising a child is nearly impossible because of financial considerations. We refuse to even consider that someone who hasn't sat through college...like President Truman for example, could have the intelligence to pick up a freakin' pencil so we fob them off into McDonalds terminally dead end work that is a total waste of time from the worker's standpoint of self support.
Jamie Lynne is not in that boat, so who the heck cares as long as she wants and is loving to her child?
I'm not for teen pregnancy because of the financial problems involved. It's just too hard without family support, but the truth is that Jamie Lynne is HAVING a baby, not running around killing them.
LBC, I agree wholeheartedly with about 98% of what you say. However, I'm not convinced that having a child at the age of 16 is the cure for adolescence, though. Today's world is what it is, and 16 year olds are in the heart of adolescence. Furthermore, the most recent research shows that the centers of the brain that govern the highest level functions (such as resisting impulses, planning, and considering long term consequences) are not fully formed until about the age of 25--not 18-20 as previously thought. I question whether 99.99% of 16 year olds would be appropriate parents. There will always be the exception that proves the rule, and if Jamie Lyn's baby is lucky, she'll be that exception.
That, and ITA that not everyone from the South is trashy. (I never said that, nor did I even imply it.) But, boy, is Britney trashy.
I am just mystified at the "blame the parents" bandwagon. Many of you here were sixteen year old girls once upon a time, weren't you? Your whole raison d'etre was to get away from your mother and do whatever the hell you wanted to do.
Some had some kind of internal controls that kept them from going too far -- and I'm not talking about having sex, I'm talking about REALLY dangerous things like going off with strange boys, driving while drunk, driving with drunk drivers, etc.
Anyone who pretends that the notion that sixteen year olds are having sex is a shock, is pulling the wool over their own eyes. It amuses me that people -- not here, necessarily, but in the public reaction to this non-event -- are acting like it's the first time they've ever heard of teenage sex.
The sad fact is that, if you're the child of a sixteen year old, your long-term chances at a stable life, and the happiness that brings, are remote. Frankly, teenagers who appreciate this on some level, and who don't have moral or religious objections, are the ones who have abortions -- wisely, I think.
Some had some kind of internal controls that kept them from going too far -- and I'm not talking about having sex, I'm talking about REALLY dangerous things like going off with strange boys, driving while drunk, driving with drunk drivers, etc.
Anyone who pretends that the notion that sixteen year olds are having sex is a shock, is pulling the wool over their own eyes. It amuses me that people -- not here, necessarily, but in the public reaction to this non-event -- are acting like it's the first time they've ever heard of teenage sex.
The sad fact is that, if you're the child of a sixteen year old, your long-term chances at a stable life, and the happiness that brings, are remote. Frankly, teenagers who appreciate this on some level, and who don't have moral or religious objections, are the ones who have abortions -- wisely, I think.
It's just sad.
If Jamie Lynn is holding out to sell her story to the highest bidder it's the first wise thing I've heard out of the whole bruhaha.
The only reason she got the Zoey gig was because she was Britney's sister. Now that that's more than likely over and done it's unlikely Miss Spears has the acting chops to get a title role in anything else, and NOW, she's looking at a big, expensive responsibility in the offing. She's going to need all the money she can get.
Diapers cost money, even up there on the moral highground, they cost cold hard cash.
I only hope she doesn't do something silly and truly "backwoods" like feel some need to marry this boy just to prove something. It will be a miracle if the marriage lasts and based upon her former earning power she'll only end up supporting the baby and the man who fathered it should the marriage go belly up.
The only reason she got the Zoey gig was because she was Britney's sister. Now that that's more than likely over and done it's unlikely Miss Spears has the acting chops to get a title role in anything else, and NOW, she's looking at a big, expensive responsibility in the offing. She's going to need all the money she can get.
Diapers cost money, even up there on the moral highground, they cost cold hard cash.
I only hope she doesn't do something silly and truly "backwoods" like feel some need to marry this boy just to prove something. It will be a miracle if the marriage lasts and based upon her former earning power she'll only end up supporting the baby and the man who fathered it should the marriage go belly up.
Cathleen56 said:
I agree but it seems to be taboo to consider abortion as a real option. I personally think it's the best option for a 16 year old who is by definition, immature. Even just physically, 16 is way too young to go through pregnancy and childbirth. When I was 17, back in 1972, I had the presence of mind to get myself on the pill by going to Planned Parenthood before I even had sex. I never thought of myself as particularly mature, but it seems I was some kind of freak compared to the typical teenaged girl. But even back then, the needed info (sex, birth control, etc.) was everywhere, you just had to think enough to look for it. Any 16 year old who cares about themselves, their future and the future of any children they might have, will do the responsible thing. Ironically, it is probably the ones who do get pregnant and "keep it" who are demonstrating that they are the ones least likely to be mature enough to be a parent. I pity Britney's babies and I pity her younger sister's baby-to-be.
A 16 year-old still has a lot of growing-up to do and I think it's virtually criminal to in any way encourage them to have babies. Criminal for them and criminal for their babies.
QUOTE
The sad fact is that, if you're the child of a sixteen year old, your long-term chances at a stable life, and the happiness that brings, are remote. Frankly, teenagers who appreciate this on some level, and who don't have moral or religious objections, are the ones who have abortions -- wisely, I think.
I agree but it seems to be taboo to consider abortion as a real option. I personally think it's the best option for a 16 year old who is by definition, immature. Even just physically, 16 is way too young to go through pregnancy and childbirth. When I was 17, back in 1972, I had the presence of mind to get myself on the pill by going to Planned Parenthood before I even had sex. I never thought of myself as particularly mature, but it seems I was some kind of freak compared to the typical teenaged girl. But even back then, the needed info (sex, birth control, etc.) was everywhere, you just had to think enough to look for it. Any 16 year old who cares about themselves, their future and the future of any children they might have, will do the responsible thing. Ironically, it is probably the ones who do get pregnant and "keep it" who are demonstrating that they are the ones least likely to be mature enough to be a parent. I pity Britney's babies and I pity her younger sister's baby-to-be.
A 16 year-old still has a lot of growing-up to do and I think it's virtually criminal to in any way encourage them to have babies. Criminal for them and criminal for their babies.
QUOTE (Julia in Maryland @ Dec 26 2007, 10:12 AM)
Ironically, it is probably the ones who do get pregnant and "keep it" who are demonstrating that they are the ones least likely to be mature enough to be a parent.
I never thought of that but I think you're right. They most likely have no idea the enormity of the decision they are making, and the impact it will have on the kids' lives, as well as their own lives.
As Chris Rock said (I'm paraphrasing here): 'Just because you can do something doesn't make it a good [effing] IDEA! You can drive with your feet but it's not a GOOD IDEA!'
QUOTE
They most likely have no idea the enormity of the decision they are making, and the impact it will have on the kids' lives, as well as their own lives.
Yeah. It's hard enough for grown, married people to really begin to fathom what it means to have a baby. For a (particularly immature) 16 year old, it's just not possible.
When I first saw this on the tube, my gut reaction was "What's up with the mama? Something is up with ol' Lynn" I'm not saying that from an it's-always-the-mother's-doing standpoint because I don't believe that to be true. It just felt like a hunch thing. I might very well be wrong, but I sense some serious dysfunction with the mom - not so much in the way she treated the girls...but perhaps what she modeled for them?? Not sure.
QUOTE (sharilstuff @ Dec 27 2007, 05:43 PM)
When I first saw this on the tube, my gut reaction was "What's up with the mama? Something is up with ol' Lynn" I'm not saying that from an it's-always-the-mother's-doing standpoint because I don't believe that to be true. It just felt like a hunch thing. I might very well be wrong, but I sense some serious dysfunction with the mom - not so much in the way she treated the girls...but perhaps what she modeled for them?? Not sure.
Apples don't fall far from the tree, Sharil.........
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