I know the topic's been talked about in detail.... but is Anthelios (or any meroxyl based prod)
still considered tops for broad spectrum protection and not irritating (esp if a retin or acid
prod is used intermittantly in tandem with the sun protection) ?

Also has anyone any opinion on the difference(s) between the Anthelios XL Fluide and the Ant cream
(same spf). Looking at the ingredients list, it seems the cream has some fragrance, while the
fluide does not. The Fluide is $28 vs the cream being $19. Maybe the Fluide is just more popular
and that's what the traffic will bear --- and not inherently a better product?

If someone has another broad spectrum product that they like to wear alone or under foundation,
I'd appreciate a recommendation. We talked about sun protection, a while ago, but it seems
new prods are coming on market all the time. TIA

Broad spectrum chemical sunscreens, when worn under foundations, will degrade. Some of the ingredients (I believe avobenzone is one of them) will degrade when exposed to iron oxides in foundation, and the protection will decrease, which is why I will stick to my trusty and oh so perfect Shiseido SPF 55 physical sunscreen. Furthermore, the ones with Mexoryl get very oily on your face...that's the general consensus.

I do believe that Mexoryl is still the best UVA blocker out there.

Just wanted to add that I just read the thread on Moisturizing Creams --- and noted everyone's response
(esp Accolon's) to the Meroxyl and other broad spectrum prods --- and Irina's as well.
I'm trying (if at all possible) to get away from having to use a sunscreen + moisturizer + tint and/or foundation
with 3 layers it seems to get gloppy. That might be asking for too much I know. With warm weather coming on
the screen plus a light tint, might be sufficient. Will have to experiment.

thanks Reiha --- I don't think I'd mind the oilyness of the meroxyl.... as the helioplex stuff feels rather
drying after applying..... Soo do you not wear any kind of tint/color over your sunscreen because of the degradation? Or is the Shisheido product a foundation that's formulated with screen that doesn't degrade?

I'm not sure what all you are talking about.
I use the Neutrogena Age Shield Block. Comes in SPF 55 and 70.
It works for me
Helioplex broad spectrum uva-uvb.
I wear it over moisturizer and under my make up. Summer, Fall, Winter, Spring

Neutrogena Ultra Sheer Dry Touch. I used to use the Anthelios but found it too greasy. Thank God the FDA finally approved broad spectrum sunscreens. I also wear a wide brimmed hat and sunglasses in the summer.

That's it but this one is for the face. Neutrogena Age Shield Face. Not greasy at all!

Neutrogena's line is extremely greasy on me, I also hate the silicon content. Shiseido SPF 55 is completely matte and contains only physical ingredients, so it doesn't degrade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avobenzone

"Avobenzone can degrade faster in light in combination with mineral UV absorbers like zinc oxide and titanium dioxide, though with the right coating of the mineral particles this reaction can be reduced.[12] A manganese doped titanium dioxide may be better than undoped titanium dioxide to improve avobenzone's stability."

I believe this means that it's ok if your chemical SS has coated titanium dioxide, it's fine, but in most makeup, the makeup doesn't contain coated particles, so it breaks down the SPF.

I'm nothing but fanatical about my sunscreens. My culture still values fair skin, and my mom's made me wear sunscreen since I was a young teen. I may sound like a broken record on the Shiseido thing, but it's seriously the one thing I can't live without, and the best sunscreen I've ever used, and I've tried everything under the sun (no pun intended).

Lancome's mexoryl product UV Expert has recently been reformulated for the worse. i can't wear it any longer for a metallic sheen and zit-action. It used to be quite perfect.

I've been enamored with Superdefense (spf 25, broad spectrum) by Clinique (for oily skin) for a couple of years now. It wears wonderfully under makeup, doesn't leave grease or sheen, and indulges the skin with vitamins and effective moisturizers. I pair this with compact powder by Dior, also spf 25. I'm religious about protection (and staying out of the sun is second nature), but I'm no longer willing to sacrifice the look of my skin day-to-day. I find most high spf products (suitable for oily skin) actually make my skin look worse: shiny and sticky, pale, etc.

MUAers will probably recognize what I use.

I use cetaphil SPF 15 moisturizer most of the time, but if I'm in the sun I use Japanese sunscreen Sofina Perfect UV White Protect 50+ (sometimes called Cut Milk). I've heard others like Sofina Lucent better b/c White Protect breaks them out, but I've not tried it yet.

WP is extremely mattifying, non greasy, very liquid & barely smells. I usually get it on eBay but a site called Bobodave has it. I hate lotion and sunscreen but this is absolutely unbeatable.

http://www.makeupalley.com/product/showrev...fina/Sunscreen/

One person there says it's hard to get off-- I don't agree. Nothing's hard to get off with a facial scrub pad.

http://forums.vogue.com.au/showthread.php?t=34868 this looks interesting too.

The Sofina stuff is fantastic for just daily use or a short run. It doesn't hold up when I'm mountain climbing, but then almost nothing does. Reapply, reapply.

I also like MyChelle's organic sunscreen for everyday use. It's all physical blockers at SPF 28. You can probably do better with a chemical/physical combo but I honestly would rather stay away from the chemical blocks and wear a hat if I'm going to be in direct sun for long.

Also Vitamin C serums have been shown to have a sun filtering effect and once applied they will not wash, wear or sweat off. Consider adding a serum to your regime.

When I'm sweating, I'd rather wear SPF protective clothing. I like Under Armour's heatgear long sleeved shirts, which are SPF 30 and very dry and cool. With sunscreen, you can still feel the sun beating down, but with a sun protective fabric you don't.

Coolibar has some great stuff too, SPF 50 but I've never gotten a burn through a UA shirt so I don't really know if more gets through.

The mexoryl stuff is fine if your skin can handle chemicals.
If you have sensitive skin, then you should get a physical block.

I've used several for body/hands and use Therapon's brand of sunblock for the 7% zinc oxide. It is very creamy but not overly greasy (I have very icky, oily skin). If I want to wear it out (say to an office or where people will see me), I add a drop or two of foundation into the stuff I squeeze on into my palm--it takes the edge off the white, which isn't bad as is with this product.

I thought Clinique's City Block had been discontinued but I've just found it online on eBay and bought it. Now I can save my Neutrogena Dry Touch just for my body.

I use the Olay Complete with SPF 15 daily. They also have a SPF 30 version. One of the main ingredients is zinc oxide, a physical block.

Lots of good ideas here. I'm with you on Shiseido's SPF 55, Reiha.

Something I've always wondered (I might have even brought it up the last time we had a sunscreen thread): If you apply sunscreen, then use a foundation or tinted moisturizer, aren't you sort of "rubbing away," or otherwise disturbing, the sunscreen as you apply the next product?

The Shiseido 55+ is great- but if you're being photographed, or in less light- you look ghostly.
Any crystal clear oil, like Clinique's, or DSH's [ a Japanese catalog],or Shiseido's, is best to remove ALL traces- before cleansing again, if you're oily, or it's summertime-heat / humidity.

I use Neutrogena's Healthy Defense 45 for everyday-it's my moisturizer as well, with heavyduty [25%] vit C serum under it.

Dry Touch is OK by me, too- but I find they all feel 'occlusive'...
It's a pain, but better than the alternative.

I'm with you, Reiha. It's the only one I've used that isn't thick or greasy, and the only mineral-based sunscreen with particles tiny enough to disappear into the skin -- no white mask. And it's small enough to carry around with you. A great product.

I've worried about that myself, but the Shiseido is so darned water-resistant (you need an oil-based remover to take it off at the end of the day), as long as I'm not using a product that's too emulsifying, I'm not too concerned. Furthermore, I let the foundation absorb for 15 minutes before I apply the next product.

Pigments usually have an sunscreening property as well.

Reiha and others who like Shiseido, do you use the cream or the lotion?

What about the smell of these products? There is something in most products with sunscreen that I'm sensitive to. Just the smell. Even when the product is highly fragranced, I can detect the sunscreen. I've resisted wearing anything on my face until now because of this but I know I'm going to just keep getting more sun damage if I don't start wearing something as much as I'm outside. Any suggestions? My skin is on the dry side of normal but also I have a tendency to break out occasionally. Woudn't want anything greasy.

I find the Shisiedo to be strongly scented and it was the only reason I stopped using it. Other than that, I thought it was a very good sunscreen. The one I use now Total Block, has a 'different' scent but it dissapears fast.

Was it strongly scented in a sunscreen way or a fragrance way (if that makes sense)?

The SPF 55 is a thin lotion consistency, much thinner than many lotions, and it comes in a small white flat bottle/tube. It's so thin it might run through your fingers if you don't keep them close together. It's completely weightless.

Shiseido does make an SPF 36 or something that is thicker in consistency and comes in a blue tube.






I have a very sensitive nose, and for that reason reject some Shiseido products, but I find they're not nearly as heavily scented as some Clarins products, for instance, some of which I've rejected completely and given away just because of the way they smell.

THis Shiseido 55 has hardly any scent at all, just a pleasant, milky scent. More of a fragrance smell than a sunscreen smell, if I know what you mean.

I use the lotion, my mom uses the cream. Many find the cream to be more moisturizing, they're both about the same for me, I just prefer the lotion because of the easier to spread consistency.

On MUA, some people find the Shiseido ss to have a strong scent, and it is very floral at first, but disappears very quickly. I've not had a problem with the scent interfering with anything.

Most days I wear the Shiseido spf 33 lotion underneath my foundation, Almay Kinetin spf 15, which has all-physical blockers (discontinued but I stockpiled a few bottles). On non-makeup days I wear Clinique Super City Block spf 40, which has mostly physical blockers with a little chemical in the mix.

I enjoy the perfumey scent of the Shiseido lotion -- it reminds me of the scent of Lancome skin care products -- and it does dissipate quickly.

I don't think I would have a problem with the floral scent of the Shiseido. I would only have a problem if you could still smell the sunscreen. Do you? This might be a hard question because I suspect I'm more sensitive to this smell than the average person.
Also, for those with dry skin, do you have to wear additional moisturizer with the Sheiseido?

I don't smell the sunscreen in it at all.

I have combination skin, so I wear a lightweight moisturizer (Earth Science Almond-Aloe) on my drier areas and let it sink in before I apply the Shiseido. In the summer, when my skin is oilier overall, I skip the moisturizer and just wear the sunscreen. On me the Shiseido lotion leaves a finish that is slightly glowy, not matte.