California has led the nation by banning the use and sale of trans-fats in baked goods, in restaurants and food services such as children's schools etc.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/26/us/26fat...amp;oref=slogin

Is this a healthy trend? Or the "nanny state" at work? Are any cooks/chefs going to miss these fats? (Do some traditional culinary creations depend on them for success, authenticity?)

For the benefit of our foreign readers who might not understand the dynamics within this country, usually, in the USA, "as goes California, goes the Nation". No matter what the trend, fad or technology is, California seems to lead the way.... then, over the next 10-20 years, the rest of the states follow suit.

I doubt that anyone will miss trans-fats, unless they provide a certain texture that is unobtainable through other means.

....

As for the rise of the nanny state, I used to oppose the nanny-state on all grounds, but then I came to the twin understandings that:

1. most people will accept what they're given and not ask enough questions
2. there are times when corporations look the other way and favor profits over consumers' health.

Now, I'll clarify things just a bit since I don't want to paint with too broad a brush here. Sometimes 1 begets 2 and despited the best intentions of all involved, things wind up in a poor situation without malice from any party. But consider this scenario:

Consumer has a choice between product A and product B. A and B seem so similar, but A has a lower price. Why does A have a lower price? inferior ingredients, perhaps. Lower nutritional content, perhaps. B is better for you for some reason, but because of the price, consumers choose A. A might be an off-brand that's imported from God-knows-where, but people are buying A, so the producer of B now has a choice: keep losing sales or cut costs.

Naturally, they cut costs. Now you have A and B, side-by-side on the shelves, at equal costs. And both are now inferior.

So, as long as the nanny state is kept in check, I'm not as opposed to it as I once was.

Leave it to California! I'm not sure that's such a great thing. I'm all for healthy eating and all but.......there are some things that need it! Especially in baked products. Don't you think? Maybe I'm wrong. I don't bake that much but.........

While Cali is the first state to ban them, NYC really led the way in Dec 2006 when it banned the sale of trans-fats in all restaurants, the first city to do so. So maybe Cali just followed the Big Apple. And I believe Wendys was the first fast food place to convert from trans fat even before that.

Yes, trans-fats make things taste richer, more buttery, more creamy, while they are clogging your arteries.

All things considered, I think it's a good move. I'm not crazy about big brother telling me what to do, but I think in this case the good outweighs the bad.

What Thomas said.

Also, this doesn't bother me as I see it as a public health issue. I guess imperfect analogies would be fluoride in water and banning lead from gasoline and paint, or banning other harmful food additives (I'm thinking of red dye here, but I'm sure there are better analogies). Anyway, good outweighs the bad.

I think Thomas's example is spot-on. Am if we have to pay more to *not* eat crap, so be it.

This comes down to the difference between price and cost. The up-front price of lower-quality foods may be less. But then there's the cost of consuming them, year after year. The cost is what you pay for the extra sick days, the extra trips to the doctor, the extra testing to find out what's wrong with you, the surgeries, and the pharmaceuticals. Not to mention the diminished quality of life because you feel like heck or can't do the things you used to do.

And I'm not even sure that food with these ingredients taken out will cost more.

As to the issue of trans-fats being necessary for taste or texture, I doubt that it's true. I read a quote from Wolfgang Puck the other day, saying his restaurants hadn't been using it for years. Not to say he's the greatest chef in the world, but he does run a line of successful eateries. So he must know something about serving appealing and tasty food.

So yes... I think Calee-for-nee-yah is doing a good thing.

Well, I don't know if anyone is saying that trans-fats are necessary for taste or texture in all foods, or even most foods. But in a lot of pre-made, pre-packaged foods sold in lots of restaurants, it does boost the texture and the taste. Now people are going to have to get used to the natural taste of food.

I've only eaten at one of Puck's restaurants and that was Spago in Vegas. It was just okay.

I think it's a good move. A better move would be the banning of sale of tobacco products. Duh. I wonder how long it's going to be before that happens? Seems like the trans-fat thing is just a misdirection of where our attention should be.

We can clog our arteries without trans fats. But lung cancer, throat cancer, cancer of the esophagus, mouth cancer.....all of these would be drastically reduced if tobacco products were no longer available. For those of you who smoke....I mean no offense. My point is that people are dying because of cigarettes and other tobacco products. Keeping their arteries unclogged is a good thing, but smoking also contributes to heart disease.

Odd. I've never known anyone to be addicted to trans-fats or marijuana. But trans-fats are being banned, and marijuana is not legal for personal consumption (I'm not sure if this holds true for all states, but it holds true for most states). Yet tobacco and alcohol, both of which kill people, are legal.

Hey, it's that new secret ingredient... the natural taste of food... what a concept!

Goldengirl, I agree with your comments about the great harm done by tobacco. Of course, it's not a food stuff, and not something you can "hide" as an ingredient in something else. But there is no question about those costs. However, the laws already in place which limit public smoking have made a huge difference. I am so glad I don't have to work 8 hrs a day with ciggie smoke curling into my eyes and lungs, as I had to do back in the 80's. There are a lot fewer people smoking now than when I was a kid.

I think tobacco is in its twilight years and will eventually dwindle down to almost nothing, due to lack of popular interest. My fear is that if they made it illegal, it would increase its appeal and lead to a resurgence in use. And the blasted stuff would probably be just as available, through illegal means, of course.

This was passed as legislation in the county that Seattle is in recently - within the last couple of months. I have mixed feelings : certainly trans fats are horrible, but I get a tad nervous when they start passing laws about what is available to us to ingest into our bodies. This should be an issue of personal choice, not governmental intervention. It's trending sharply this way anyway, so the trans fats would have dwindled anyway. Seattle-ites are really health conscious.

I don't make pies much or bake much because I can't afford the calories. I concentrate on meat, fish and veggies.........I eat really healthy however,
after living in the south.........people who make pies swear that some pies have to have Crisco.
I'm in agreement with anything healthy. Don't get me wrong..........but I think some people will always cook some things traditionally. NO?

Yes, some people will always cook things traditionally, and that's not entirely a bad thing. Being indulgent now and then is not going to kill you. Can anyone here argue that an occasional comfort food is good for the soul?

I used to make my pie crusts with lard, and for the two times a year that I did that, I don't think anyone suffered any long term effects. I never used lard for anything else, or had lard in my house for any other purpose. If I'm going to eat a piece of pie, I'd like it to be worth the calories!

Rasputin said:

I don't want or need the nanny state telling me what I can eat. If we allow the state authority over one area of our lives, we then decided we are not our own masters. No ifs and or buts to it. The Founders of the United States of America gave us a pretty good Constitution. Regulating our diets or whether we choose to smoke should be within the scope of our self-mastery. It's sad to think some are so lazy they think the state needs to intervene to protect them so they don't eat 'the wrong foods'.

I speak as a person who has never cared to smoke cigarettes and does not dine regularly at fast food places. As pointed out, Wendy's had already stopped using trans fats and other fast food places were planning the change anyway.

Goldengirl, the complete ban of tobacco products are exactly what those who profit from illegal substances pray for. The profits would be enormous. BTW, it is not only the tobacco in cigarettes which is cancer causing, but rather the ingestion of burning paper and lignin, a cancer causing chemical from paper. Pure tobacco cigars, as smoked by my ancestors, are fairly harmless and non-addictive.

They can take away my tub of Crisco (which I use for pies, fried chicken) from my cold, dead hands!

It is perfectly possible to make solid cooking fats (Crisco) without using trans fats, by substituting artificially hydrogenated vegetable oils (trans fats) with straightforward, naturally saturated vegetable oils such as palm oil, or by mixing liquid vegetable oils with the separated hard oil fractions present in many vegetable oils. It is generally agreed that trans fats are far worse for health than saturated fats.

As I see it, although I completely agree with the statements above about the 'nanny state', the problem with trans fats is the shocking list of products that contain them, without the consumer having any choice because the consumer is completely unaware that the products contain them. When in the UK, there was a general voluntary move by manufacturers to remove them due to public pressure, what shocked me was the range of products that included trans fats. The list included most brands of biscuits (cookies), ice cream, chocolate, potato chips/corn chips/popcorn as well as the more obvious bakery products.

Crisco has 0 trans fat by the way.


http://www.crisco.com/Products/Details.asp...&ProdID=451

Americans are too fat already. So this is absolutely fine with me that they are doing this in my homestate of California.

I wished they did it here in Nevada! I see all these really fat people that frequent the casinos, stores, everywhere and some are also on oxygen tanks still smoking a cigarette, even with all the warnings that "nicotine kills". So believe me, little sympathy towards anyone that doesn't take notice of the true facts of what you put in your body really matters.

I'm all for healthier living here.

Thanks for looking it up, Mary.

I was wondering about Crisco. I seldom use it, but have found it's not possible to make a perfect crust for pies or quiches without it. The perfect crust for a quiche needs 2 tablespoons of shortening along with the 6 tablespoons of butter. Using all butter is definitely possible, but it results in a 'tougher' crust. My grandmother's fried chicken was actually better than mine, especially the leftovers. I wonder if it's because she used Crisco instead of oil?

Ah, compassion! Warms the cockles.

We all have our demons, be it food, alcohol, cigarettes, even shopping. People understand the negative effects of their excesses, but perhaps don't do the greatest job of controlling them. Hard to know the battles others are fighting at times, but an awareness of our own failings should help temper judgment.

So I'm judgemental.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that is on this board anyway.

I can think of a few that are very passive agressive when it comes to this sort of thing on here.

I, at least, admit that I am being judgemental. But I do have a right to voice my opinion even if it's unfavorable or not well received.

There is a loophole that allows companies to claim their products contain no transfats. It has to be less than half a gram per serving. As long as it says "hydrogenated", it's transfat. I've always used Smart Balance instead of Crisco and it works just fine. Otherwise, I use natural fats, like butter and liquid oils. Why buy garbage?

Mando...if they took all the fun out of Vegas, the place would shut down! Healthy living in Las Vegas?? Come ON!

Well you know, my love, we all have our vices. Some people are fat; some are smokers; some have uncontrollable spending habits.

(wink wink)


I don't often use Crisco, but when I need it, I'll be using it. 'Garbage' or not.

Okay, Okay... I really took that prior poster to mine really a bit harsh.

And true,I agree that living where I live at is not the picture of health and prosperity (only the Casinos make out in the end truly). Personally, I rather live anywhere but here. But you make the choices you do when they are very good ones (do not need to go into that here).

It just irked me that said what I said and I get shot down for it. I'm feeling a bit touchy as can be noticed and read here very well.

Okay, WE ALL KNOW I HAVE A SHOPPING OBSESSION which has been heavily documented by myself on here and I admit it, I DO.

But as for this subject where they are doing what they are doing, I'm all for it. I have no issue with it all.

That is all.

Mando {{{{{{{{hug}}}}}}}}

I'm sorry, Mary for being a big baby here.

No one deserves to get any of my own dumb wrath here anytime, any day, anywhere.

You're too sweet, dear and I'm just a big old brat baby!

Oh, let it rip, baby. We all feel sensitive at times. I got your point about a healthy lifestyle being the best goal, and I agree.

I'm not too thrilled with government getting into the whole "banning any particular ingredient" business. If I want to eat trans-fat then that's my business. Stick it to me on heatlh-care side at the end.

What governments should do, IMO, is require proper labeling on all foods sold. That frappucino with whipped cream at Starbuck's, display how many calories are in it.

Well..............let's put it this way............On New Years Day I'll be serving ham, collard greens with ham hocks, black eyed peas with ham hocks, garlic cheese grits, and corn bread with butter. NO SUBSTITUTES!! No telling what's for dessert but...............
Sometimes ya gotta do it!!

Ahhhh, I see! So something like Fettucine Alfredo might not be so opulent/heavenly/scumptious without it's trans-fats... DARN !!!

(and what about POUND CAKE??? O.k., I'm officially bummed now... )

Well..................................you don't have to make a habit of eating like that............after all..........we all want to live long lives .........but sometimes......ya just gotta do it! Life's too short. Never is a loooooooooooong time.

Nubs, it's called POUND CAKE for a reason. Originally it had a POUND of sugar, a POUND of butter, etc.

I'm happy about the trans-fat ban. It's a public health issue and trans-fat is not IMHO "necessary" to make food items (especially when it's not disclosed that the product contains it, or there is no choice of products so you can choose one that doesn't contain it).

I personally believe in all-natural ingredients - I use real sugar, butter, cream, etc. I think it's better to eat the real thing in moderation than to use chemical substitutes. My pie crusts are made with all butter (I would use lard but I'm Jewish so that's a no-go). They are a tiny bit firmer but I love the taste.

Dang it, I knew there was a reason why I can't have it anymore...

Yes. I agree ..........it's a health problem


but as far as the pound cake................or Paula Deen's cooking............sugar and fat........."can't beat that."

I do not cook like that and cannot remember when I last had pound cake..........but....like I said..........balance in everything. Never say never.

No, I don't think it would be conducive to your weight loss plan. Maybe a sugar-free, fat-free version?