Greetings -
I just finished reading the posts about "minimalist scents vs classic scents". A few days ago, Sharilstuff began a thread about "what you require in a scent". These two threads got me thinking about what I wear and why.

I'm all about certain scents - scents that reach my soul in some way. I am attracted to different fragrances all the time, and honestly, there are very few that I don't appreciate on some level. However,obviously, there are some fragrances that "speak to me" more than others, that I actually want to wear and sniff all day long.....and that's where my comment/question comes from:
Why bother to wear fragrance if it has no appreciable sillage or staying power?

If I can only smell my perfume by getting my nose within an inch of my arm, and if other people can only smell my perfume if their noses are within inches of my neck - then what's it all about? If I apply a beautiful fragrance that lasts only for a short time and then disappears, then is it worth the money? I realize that there are times when I don't notice my perfume, yet other people mention it -- but I've come to know which of my fragrances fall into this category, and so I apply them with confidence that they stay for awhile. Then there are the times when I am sampling a new scent, or I've purchased a scent, and it completely disappears in a short time, and when I ask my family and friends what they think of "XYZ perfume" they tell me that they thought I wasn't wearing perfume that day. (WHAT? Me? A day without perfume??? What's up with That??)

Now, I'm not advocating "those" fragrances which announce one's arrival before one actually enters the door, nor am I advocating fragrances which fill a room with their presence...but I do think it's WONDERFUL if I can experience little wafts of fragrance that swirl around me during the day.....AND if other people can get a soft breeze of scent as I pass by.

Rasputin (Dave), said it PERFECTLY (as usual !) in the "minimalist vs classic" thread:
I'm going to reveal my working-class, Texas, Scottish roots by saying that I do appreciate "bang for the buck".
If I'm going to drop a C-note on a fragrance, I do want it to rock my world and curl my toes with its drama and strength.

Smedley- I agree with you 100 percent. I am so annoyed with some of the recent releases of perfume that do the dissapearing act within an hour of applying. I too want to experience wafts of my perfume throughout the day. I get annoyed too with so many SA that are trained to say any new perfume is "fresh and clean", no matter what category they are. I too want some "bang for my buck".

Yeah, I like bang for my buck, too, but it's not just bang, really...
Lately I've noticed that the fragrances I keep returning to, over-and-over, are the ones which 'tell a story'.
That's even harder for me to explain than the 'big bang theory' -- -- but it has to do with complexity, strength, and longevity if it's going to spin a yarn.
I do like to go through the entire pyramid of notes, in not too short a time, but I also enjoy linear fragrances if they last a long time and have something to 'say'.

Well, I think we all appreciate a "good value" for our dollar, but the difficulty for me is finding the balance. For me, there is such a thing as too much sillage or too consistent of a sillage, and it feels oppressive. I need to be able to catch wafts for at least 4-5 hours, but I also need it to just be wafts. I don't want to be aware of my fragrance on a second-to-second basis. The best scents for me are the sleepers - I think they are gone while I'm still and then suddenly I move and it's there. I appreciate strong sillage on others - it makes them seem more interesting to me on a certain level...but not on myself. And if someone told me they could smell my perfume in the room after I left, I'd probably be a little mortified. My scent should enter and leave with me...but that's just my take on it.

Smeddles, I want bang for my buck as well. ITA that little wafts coming up all through the day, like puffs of perfume that float around you when you move, are my goal with a scent. That said, long-lastingness and sillage are not necessarily the province of only traditional or classic perfumes. Some of them don't last very long at all (note the recent thread complaining of the fleetingness of Diorissimo - 1956) and minimalist perfumes are not necessarily fleeting. Minimalist perfumes are, to my understanding, created with simplified molecules, but they can last a long time and get the desired effect. For instance, on me Kelly Calèche keeps coming up all day long. I can also smell Un Jardin Après la Mousson for hours. I recall testing L'Eau d'Issey (which I don't like), one of the early minimalist perfumes, and being unable to scrub it off or wear it off, until it decided on its own to leave after a few days! Eau d'Hadrien has been around for about 20 years and it gets longevity complaints. So do some of the Carons and some of them have been around for almost a century.

To me, the longevity issue and the classic vs. minimalist issue are two separate things. Classic vs. minimalist I see as different constructional approaches but staying power in my experience can vary in both camps.

I'm the opposite, I suppose.

I don't want to knock anyone out with my sillage. I wear perfume mainly for me, it doesn't need to project very far. If they can only smell it when I hug them, that's fine with me.

Longevity is not an issue if the perfume is not exorbitantly priced. I don't mind reapplying an oh, say $75 perfume after a couple of hours; however, it *kills* me to have to reapply something that cost over, say, $120 within those same hours!

Sharil - you hit the nail on the head here. On most days, I want to appreciate my fragrance throughout the day - by catching a sideways whiff of it as I'm going about my business, or by sniffing my right wrist when no body is looking. The fragrances that hit that sweet spot of lasting all day and having very subtle sillage are complete winners in my book - and they are few and far between:

- Tabac Blond and Alpona extraits by Caron
- Heritage and l'Instant Pour Homme by Guerlain
- SL's Ambre Sultan and TF's Amber Absolute
- Patou's Sublime
- Vetiver by Guerlain
- Parfum des Merveilles by Hermes (extrait)
- Jicky extrait

There are others in my stash, but these are right there at the top of my list...

Teddius

P.S. - On the other hand, I absolutely *love* a great summery cologne after a shower. Most of them don't last, but the good ones are heaven-in-a-bottle on a steamy hot night...

Well, what do you all make of a fragrance like CdG KYOTO? A quite expensive fragrance that's... hardly even "there" at all, even at the peak of its strength...

Pleasant though (I suspect) it is, one could scarcely even call it "splash" or "veil" strength... "Glorified alcohol" seems closer...

KYOTO makes TIMBUKTU seem like GIORGIO.


It's with fragrances like CdG KYOTO that I sometimes feel as if I'm being "had", as if I'm moving into a fey, Frankish "Emperor's New Clothes" territory...

Teddius, it's true edc doesn't last. They were not meant to last. Some of the old French perfume books from the '60s and earlier explain cologne as something to use as a refresher after a bath or shower. Then, by time you get dressed, you put on edt for the day. Sometimes they don't even recommend the same scent in edc and edt, although colognes were also made to match parfum and edt. In some French decorating magazines I have saved from the '70s, in bathrooms they show a huge (one liter) "family" bottle of edc which everyone used!

Sophia Grojsman is my favorite perfumer. Her perfumes are what I would call substantial. So many of my favorites are her creations.

I'ma say it before, and I'ma say it again--there's a part of me that feels the new "minimalism" is actually a very clever ploy on the part of perfume manufacturers to get us to apply more (either initially or by needing to reapply throughout the day) so that we will need to buy more. Yes, a huge part of minimalism is an aesthetic trend, but I can't get past the sneaking feeling that they've found a way to sell more juice.

I want the bang for the buck! There are very few watery, wimpy scents in my wardrobe. If I want less oomph, I apply less perfume.

If we disregard our noses' gradual "deafness" to a perfume and we're actually talking about a perfume with zero staying power...sometimes I find I love a perfume too much to not wear it, even if it is fleeting.

In this very very interesting thread, Reiha, the point you have drawn out is very interesting !.

There ARE some perfumes which do not and can not last so well, whether we use EDT or EDC form..or go for the strength of extrait or parfum which we may anyway prefer... Lovers of Ch #9 would attest to preferences for different strengths !

Some perfumes cannot last well due to the nature of the notes from which it is formed. Chanel's latest batch of Exclusifes are very "minimalist" yet so very expensive and only available in a bucket. I cannot extend myself so far as to use the amount of them required to really enjoy them. IMHO of course.

Following what Reiha has said - Shalimar does not last as well as I would like but I cannot imagine being without her. I will pay what I need to to keep her. Apres L'Ondee is one of quite a few other masterpieces which cannot last long and of course as said we need to choose very carefully with most Niche.
And then - On hot summer's days when I require the uncomplicated but lovable Light Blue, I will reapply as often as it needs. It never never lasts ... I think of it as a refresher scent ! anyway and thankfully it is not as expensive as some !

I suppose the best we can do is watch carefully how we spend our buck in order to get the best bang ! But there will always be some we cannot resist in spite of the $

Interesting thread this one..... I would like to hear more ....

Teddius, that's exactly what I expect. This is what I'd call a skin scent. I don't want a bunch of sillage. It's for *MY* enjoyment, and I'm not interested in attracting attention to it. I want no one to notice it unless they've leaned into my personal space.

I've been wearing scent since I was a little girl, and I've been through the powerhouse sillage phase, thank you. Back in the 60's and 70's, you could get away with wearing great swaths of fragrance without comment... and I did. When I got my first full-time job in 1977, the first thing I did was buy a big set of Youth Dew. I spritzed myself liberally with those can't-miss-em fumes for months on end. I also wore Tigress, Cinnabar, White Linen, Coriandre, Aromatics Elixir, Ysatis, and Fendi, none of which are ignorable. My "lightweights" were L'Interdit, Quartz, and Fidji...even those have significant sillage. But I'm afraid I got sick of sillage after Giorigio ruined the playing field. That obnoxious scent and the hordes of people that started wearing it, and all the copycat sledgehammers and head-drillers that followed it literally drove me away. My collection dwindled and I wore almost nothing for many years.

I still admire scents like Youth Dew, but I seldom wear them, and only at home. My tastes have changed. My greatest enjoyment now come from subtle scents that discretely and slowly evolve in intriguing ways in a small cocoon around me.

This is good, because my workplaces since the 80's have either overtly or discretely discouraged scent-wearing. So I have a choice: wear a subtle skin scent that only I enjoy (which is my personal preference anyway), or wear nothing at all. So I wear skin scents.

For this reason, I'm now really appreciating the Carons and Patous.... they seem to work well as skin scents, and yet they last all day on me. As do Goutals, the few Keiko Mecheri's that I've tried, some of the Guerlains, and some of the scents from Dawn Spencer Hurwitz.

There are sheer, simple scents that last all day on me. A good example is one that Nathan turned me on to. Matthew Williamson Warm Sand. It lasts and lasts, but it doesn't have that thick, opaque quality that I don't dig in some of the powerhouse scents.

Another very good example is Narciso Rodriguez for her. It's not thick, but it lasts the day and arm's reach vs room-wide is a matter of the number of sprays.

These are both modern and sheer in feel, but I can spray in the morning and count on them. It can be done.

Agree with Eau des Merveilles and Guerlain's Vetiver, Ted...though the Vetiver can wear on me on the wrong day. The women's version is lighter on the nutmeg and feels more transparent, but also lasts incredibly well.

Diva - I agree with you COMPLETELY!
Consumers are always being baited with the "new, improved formula of XYZ", no matter if it is fragrance or laundry soap. AND just like the built-in "self-destruct" mechanisms that I swear are in most appliances these days, the folks at "XYZ Corporation, Inc." will find ways to keep consumers buying, using, and returning for more.

Now, with perfume, I will agree that there must be new products because the intrinsic beauty of a fragrance is based on artistry, experimentation, and the need to re-define the standards for every generation. (I am always amused to think that today's fruity/floral offerings will some day be thought of as "old lady" fragrances -- [grin] )
There are some WONDERFUL perfumers around today, and there are some masterpieces being created. But, I still think there is much behind-the-scenes work going on that is: (1) altering many classics to make them less expensive to produce (i.e. cheapening the ingredients) and taking away their oomph, and (2) fostering the "minimalist" trend as a way to be the "new, improved style" that also serves as a way to generate more sales more often.

But this is again the thesis: What's the point of wearing perfume if it is too subtle and too insubstantial? I want perfumes that last (on me) and have a not-overpowering, but subtly noticeable sillage -- within arm's length is just fine, thank you. [happy smile]

That said..... I'll probably be a consumer forever, because like so many of us, I'm constantly on the lookout for the next masterpiece, the next classic, even as I enjoy the ones I already have.
Thanks so much for your comments - I love POL for just this reason....our discussions are so enlightening and educational (for me, at least...)
Happy sniffing.
Gwen

THANKS to BlueCedar and Sharilstuff for some great recommendations for more sheer, but LASTING scents. The thing I love about POL the most: recommendations for new fragrances!!!

I am also firmly in the camp of wanting my fragrance to have presence and to last at least through the workday. I don't want to apply a scent and then have to reapply an hour or 2 later because it's gone so completely as to make me think I never applied any scent in the first place. Nothing more annoying to me than to drop big $$ on a scent that doesn't last well. I don't mind spending big $$ for a scent but the staying power had better reflect the investment for me.

I won't wear a perfume that won't give me at least 6 hours of decent sillage (i.e. I can still smell it on myself without pressing my nose up to my skin). That said, some have such strong and persistent sillage they can be fatiguing (Bois d'Encens, I'm talking to you) so I apply those sparingly. I don't have too much trouble though - most things seem to last okay on me.

There was a thread here lately about Fragrances Not for the Faint of Heart or Nose (yes, I admit I started it, so it was interesting to me! ) Anyway, it was great to read the lists of BIG fragrances with plenty of OOMPH that others here love to wear! (Estee Lauder, I luuuuuv you! Until very recently, you have never failed to deliver in the sillage department!! )

I definately agree that while I don't want my perfume to signal my arrival five minutes before I enter a room, I do want some sillage & "presence" if I'm going to be shelling out my $$ for it...

I agree! It can be all about a mood for me and if it calls for something light, well, I wear something light and the same goes for stronger scents and my "mood"

Sometimes I want a scent that is only perceived subtlety or only for me. I tend to prefer something that broadcasts or that sustains me for hours but sillage in the workplace can be horribly intrusive.

I agree. Sillage in the workplace is tricky. Something ultra potent like Spellbound can seem to cling to the surface of everything around it.

I used to want to project a big aura around myself. Now I'm more interested in keeping it more personal, and close to me. I don't mind if it fades to a whisper around me rather than clouds.

I'm with Smedley but I'm not a fan of some scents. Most of Lauder's are too loud for me...........
I still love Opium, Angel and most all mine have oumph.........but it's all in HOW you apply it. I can't stand to be smothered anymore but..........I'm not for the minimalist scents unless I'm going somewhere that I'm not supposed to wear perfume! Like............where is that and why am I going?

If I look good and feel good - I want to smell good and be noticed = wearing one of my "Oopmph and staying power"ones . If I look like I need a bag on my head(or at least keep my sunglasses on the whole time) when I go in somewhere to grab a gallon of milk - I don't want my perfume to "draw attention" to me =wearing one that will fade and blend in with the background scenery.

Same here. I love some of the "big" fragrances, but I rarely wear them in public. I don't want to project a big aura. I'd rather others smelled my fragrance only when they were very close to me. I mostly wear perfume for myself, I guess.

I also love certain notes that just seem to be fleeting. I'm always looking for a good, lasting citrus, especially grapefruit or orange. They just haven't figured out how to make those last, yet. So I reapply throughout the day. (Hello, Eau des Merveilles and Arancia di Capri ...)

I enjoyed reading this riveting thread. I agree with those who mentioned about big aura perfumes in the work place and places like restaurants or theaters. Then again there are places where a perfume like that might be ok, like an open air festival or the park. 'Pity it's not possible to turn perfume on and off. Personally I like my perfume to last at least 4 hours and as someone put it have enough sillage to be perceptible without having to press my nose to my skin. I like 100% natural and it's a rare enough quality in a natural, but I recently received a sample from a friend that lasted 9+ hours and had enough sillage at that stage to be noticeable to my DH when we were watching a movie that evening.


I need to go to sleep, what am I doing still reading so late 1:36 am GT (Galway time)

For the amount money that perfume costs, it needs to have staying power. I will not buy a perfume anymore until I spray on me and wear it home. If it lasts then I will go back and buy it. Have not found many that do, including Narsico Rodriguez For Her as was mentioned in another reply. In fact, that was the last perfume that I bought at the moment. I have learned to wait or walk around the mall for hours. I need to still be able to smell the scent still on me. I am aware that it is about one's body chemistry. The few that I have had success with are J'Adore, Caroline Herrera, and Chloe.