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Look at this face. Flooded, with emotion. I had to look twice, when I came across this photo in my album.

Do actors and actresses emote this way, nowadays? Is it considered melodramatic, and over the top, to emote for current movies? Has plastic surgery, snuffed out the fiery emotions that defined actors' faces? Seems to me that I have to look at real life dramas, to see such intensity of feeling, these days. I don't think I'll find such heartfelt displays, at the movie theater.

What do the rest of you, think? And what word (s) would you use, to describe the emotions that Vivien Leigh is expressing in this final shot, from GWTW?

Looks like self-doubt to me. As though she's trying to convince herself everything will be okay, but deep down she's not so sure.

I don't think contemporary actors act in this way at all. Acting today is so 'laid back'. I become very dissapointed with actors that play all their parts the same. Meaning that instead of the actor being the characters, it's just the 'actor' playing so and so. Jennifer Aniston is an overworked overexposed overrated actress that plays all her parts like she plays the girl in 'Friends', to me, it's always the same person.

Meryl Streep was never like that, she was always adding some nuance that was unique to the character she was playing. Johnny Depp is like that too, completly transforms himself so that there's not trace of Johnny, no signature, just the character. I LOVE that in actors, it makes them so much fun to watch and observe. There are very few like that today. I think Anthony Hopkins is a great actor but sometimes he gets too caught up in his 'style' and it's sooo Anthony that I forget about the character. When I think of this quality in actors that I like so much, I can only reflect on old hollywood. Bette Davis could do it, John Garfield, Edward G. Robinson, and dare I saw Lana Turner, she always seems different to me in every part she played.

These actors could really transform themselves, show passion, restraint, and a so many other emotions all at once, sometimes just with their eyes. I don't believe actors do that anymore.

There are some actors out there who still get into the character and show emotions.
One thing that is killing facial expressions is that damned botox!!!

Check out Janice Dickinson's site:

http://www.oxygen.com/janice/

Then go to videos, and play the one that reads:

"DukeTox: Nothing screams "grace" like some Botox to the face."

It's her two makeup guys or advisors, or whatever they are...and I know some of it is tongue-in-cheek, but I fear not much. One of the guys is getting botox injections.
Just listen to the commentary.
Makes me want to vomit.

Armanis - in that great shot of VL as Scarlett, I see HOPE shining through the pain of loss - she's already figured out a way to win him back - she's a survivor after all. There's also some acceptance there, and perhaps the realization that it was Rhett she loved all along and not Ashley, the fantasy.

Isn't that an amazing, look on VL'S face?

Irinadax, I'm glad to know that some of the current acting crop, can still express, via facial muscles. I'll have to play closer attention, to some of the stars that you mentioned . . . just recently, during the Da Vinci Code, I saw very little 'drama,' on the actors' faces . . .

Catie, I too hate a botox bloated, expressionless pudge of a face. Victoria Principal's looks creepy . . . what happens if you stick a pin, in that watery looking cushion? Ecch.

Demetrue, soooooo many of the 'old time' stars could say so much, with a look: Susan Hayward, Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Barbara Stanwyck, Kirk Douglas, Paul Newman, Marlon Brando! Their performances were seasoned with so much, salt and pepper!!!

One of my favourite actors is Gena Rowlands. Watching her mesmerizing performance in one of my favourite movies "A Woman Under the Influence", I can not imagine Gena pulling off the character of "Mabel" with botoxed skin - it would be absolutely impossible. I really dislike what surgical interventions seem to do be doing to actors' faces. Imagine trying to carry off a role in a silent film - with a frozen Botox face? No way!

Click to view attachment Agree . . . recently I saw Tea with Mussolini . . . Cher was unable even to approximate any facial expression, except for . . . none at all. photo: Gloria Swanson: Sunset Boulevard

Interesting that you should be interested in facial expression at the moment, Armanis... As I am getting more seriously into 3D modelling and 3D animation, human facial expression is something much on my mind at present, as well.

This book by Gary Faigin:


is widely thought to be the "bible" on the subject, for 2D and 3D artists.

It interests me much to learn that, really, there are only six basic facial expressions, and everything else is pretty much a "tint", "shade" or "mix" of these six. They are: Sadness, Anger, Joy, Fear, Disgust and Surprise. [Sounds like a law firm, hm? (-: ]

As you might expect, these six expressions are pretty much "hard-wired" into our primate's brains, and are part-and-parcel of being human, appearing as they do in our earliest weeks of life...

One of my fave actresses, Patty Clarkson, points out that, in acting, there's only so much you can fake. Eventually, the actor has to bring something of him/herself to every moment of his performance, if it is to be convincing and affecting to the audience...

From the period 1860 to about 1923, it was thought that an actor could simply "put on" expressions at will, like putting on a hat. There was a French acting teacher named François Delsarte who drew up these elaborate maps of all the myriad emotions an actress could express, simply by emulating the faces in his chart. He believed that wearing these expressions would intrinsically eleicit the selfsame emotions in the audience member. But around the appearance of "talkies" in 1927, it soon became apparent that actors needed to draw up something real, if was going to "read" onscreen-- and truly move the audience in the process...

And we all know about the appearance of the Lee Strasberg "Method" approach, which grew to its biggest fame in the 1950's..... This method placed great emphasis on the roles of sensory memory ["Smell the coffee!!!"] and emotional authenticity in good acting. So many of the best post-WWII movie stars studied with Strasberg, including Paul Newman, Robert Redford, Marilyn Monroe, Marlon Brando, Eli Wallach, James Dean, and so many others.

Nowadays, Delsartian acting is usually pooh-poohed as "indicating", that dreaded word that no actor ever wants to hear from his director or acting coach.

It is my own finding that, the way to take one's understanding of facial expression to its ultimate, is to study NLP, or Neuro-Linguistic Programming, the hypnotic techniques of Milton Erickson and Virginia Satir, as well as to grasp the Six Basic Facial Expressions Gary Faigin describes so beautifully in this book above.

What do the rest of you, think? And what word (s) would you use, to describe the emotions that Vivien Leigh is expressing in this final shot, from GWTW?
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I see hope, fear and loss all at once in her lovely face.

Also I have to agree that botox is responsible for the lack of expression in many actors faces in our times. Shame, that:-(

Thank you so much, rasputin for ANOTHER great analysis . . . I had heard too, that suspicion was one of the 'faces' with which human beings came equipped to produce. But I suppose that suspicion falls somewhere, between fear and surprise?? I'll try to scan some photos of me, later . . . with a few of these expressions, as depicted in the book that you recommend!! LOL. I had a cousin who was the absolute DEPICTION, of ENVY!! Oh!! A prune faced, wet blanket!

I suppose perhaps, that envy falls somewhere between joy, and disgust??

Fascinating.

And didn't Gloria Swanson, so aptly express just why, a different approach became necessary, for the 'talkies??' Her expressions, simply were . . . too unrefined as Norma Desmond, to have succeeded, in movies with sound.

Perfumefanatic, I too, see many different feelings and desires, and fears and hopes, in Miss Leigh's wondrous face, as she utters the final line, from GWTW: 'after, all . . . tomorrow, is another day!' Music, fade . . . the end.

It is my own finding that the best way to understand another person's facial expression it is to be aware of the context, live a life filled with observation of one's self and one's fellow human beings in a variety of situations and to add verbal communication to clarify.

Here's something interesting: When a human being truly smiles out of genuine mirth or joy, his eyes crinkle and narrow, involuntarily, to slits. EVERY good actor and portraitist and cartoonist must learn this.

But-- as Gary Faigin points out in his book-- we in the Western world are constantly assailed with TV and magazine and subway and billboard advertisements in which we see people who do create a "rictus" with their mouths (drawing out the corners into a smile), yet their eyes remain open, big and round and focused. This is instantaneous proof-positive of an insincere smile. The model is trying to indicate joy or mirth or satisfaction or welcome or interest to the viewer-- yet their eyes belie the truth-- which is that this emotion is not genuinely felt emotionally.

Look for this faux smile in magazines and on TV!

Another interesting factoid: monkeys, chimps, gorillas and other "subhuman" primates "smile" at each other-- in essence, bare their fangs-- to show anger, displeasure, territoriality and threat. The quickest way for a human to frighten or alienate or intimidate an ape-- is to openly smile at it.

Maintain a "poker mouth" when meeting a monkey!

rasputin, I never showed my teeth in photos, until I turned forty. My grandmother felt that showing one's teeth, was over the top. Poor form. So, my sister and I did not show our teeth. Neither did our mother. My father, never smiled.

When I began to show my teeth, under the direction of friends who got sick of my sour milk lips, I had NO IDEA, how to smile. I still don't know, how . . . and, yes: I'll agree: the smile in my photos, is often insincere. Most of the time, I don't feel like smiling at all. But, I figure it's less scary, if I do . . .

Have you seen THE BEST MAN?? There's a line in that movie, that I never forgot: Henry Fonda checks his teeth in the mirror, declaring to his campaign manager that a man never looks 'more cannibalistic,' than when he smiles and bares his teeth.

Yes, Armanis. Many of the native French and native Mexican people I have known look at me askance if I smile at them generously-- with teeth. I think in those cultures, the broad smile carries with it messages of effrontery, self-satisfaction, cunning, and/or superciliousness. I've had French and Mexicans look at me as if to say, "What's so damned funny?" and "Are you making fun of me?" when all I wanted to do was express some American-style friendliness.

Barbara Walters always talks about how she "smiles" for the camera. She said to imagine you have fish hooks in the side of your mouth that are pulling your mouth open in the direction of your ears. Princess Diana soon learned to smile like that ... in fact most celebrities just open their mouths to show their teeth... to give the impression that they are smiling.

To answer your GWTW question :

I agree with Demetrue 100%: Pain and hope and realising her true self.


Re:D's excellent (as always) post: there was a great documentary on BBC some while back, named The human face that explored exactly how faces show emotion and how feigning emotion doesn't always work and how we remember faces etc. It was presented by John Cleese and it was tremendous fun! If you can get a rental on this, go watch it. Not to be missed ( there was also a policeman-expert who talked about micro-expressions, those little flicks that barely register when someone is telling a lie and lots of useful info on how to decipher that!)


Today, there are still actors who have a whole range of emotions plainly visible on their faces; come on, it's not that everything is corrupted. You just have to look to the right place!
I can nominate Gary Oldman and Daniel Day Lewis: watch them and you see emotion aplenty!
I can think of many others too, if you're interested.

Plus, cinema being a completely different means (than theater or opera for example), the expressions do have to be a little subtle, because it would seem over the top.
If you want LOTS of dramatic expression you should watch ancient greek tragedies in the theater. I mean LOTS!

Daniel Day Lewis, comes to mind, yes. And I admit: I don't go to that many movies, nowadays. Still, I doubt there's another Vivien or Bette or Joan, lurking in the wings. That BBC special, sounds like something I would have enjoyed!

As for Greek theater . . . helg, I've had that right here at home . . . all my life!

rasputin: I understand more now, why my grandmother couldn't tolerate . . . 'big, toothy grins.' She thought them to be grotesque, and utterly ill mannered. I may have to go back to my sour milk lips . . . btw: if you look at portraits of aristocrats, often times, these people aren't showing teeth. Or, even smiling.

Armanis: I think not only is "not smiling" aristocratic, but not even catching your photographer's eye is even more "U".

"U"= Befitting of the Upper Class, coined by Alan Ross and expounded upon by the famous British guide, U & Non-U REVISITED by Nancy Mitford.

Ever watched the opening credits of the British sit-com, AS TIME GOES BY ? Featured are two snapshots of the show's leads, Dame Judi Dench and Geoffrey Palmer. Though the photographs are tenderly locketed in a swiveling gold deskframe, the people unsmiling within them are visibly focusing their eyes on something-- ANYTHING-- other than their photographer... I've seen this "effect" over and over with classy Brits; it's definitely a "statement".

It means two things:

"I'm not so narcissistically self-absorbed (as others might be) as to be thrilled that you're taking my photograph."


"My life is so varied and interesting, and it's certainly not going to be interrupted by the likes of YOU."



Both are very quintessentially British emotions. (-: It's we Americans who've institutionalized the "photo op".



D.

A great article, while we're on the subject:


On thgis subject: A dear dear, longstanding bosom friend of mine I met in 1978. At that time, he was from Lancashire, and had-- to me-- the most touching and fetching "Lankey" burr that I'd ever heard in my life.

Since then, he has made his accent more posh. I know why he did it, but it's really a shame. He used to say to me, "Aye, lad!" which I adored. Now he almost never does. Which is kind of sad.

YES, rasputin . . . I often watch As Time Goes, By . . . you are so right! The great photographer, Horst, said that almost every time he photographed someone of aristocratic lineage, a reserved stature was to be had. No desire really, to smile . . . or, perhaps even to look into the camera! Also, Horst wrote that it wasn't the easiest thing, to get upper class types to pose for photographic portraits, period.

Will read the article you posted, with interest!

I have the exact same expression on my face that Vivien Leigh does when I find a clean ladies room after driving for 7 hours.

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LOL. I look like that after the laundry's all been folded and put away.

This is how I look, whenever my father wants to talk . . .

Here's what I look like before the laundry's done:

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