I just saw this last nite for the first time - It was a very beautiful movie but I know it's not exactly accurate - it is after all a work of fiction. It has prompted me to find out more about Geisha life and I have a coupld of questions maybe someone here can answer - I know some of you are fans of the book.

I understand that Geisha are not prostitutes, but how is the 'mizague' issue NOT prostitution? I don't get it. If they sell a Geisha's virginity - isn't that 'prostitution'? does this mean that after that she has no sexual relations with anyone else? And I'm also confused about the role of the 'danna' or 'patron'.

I'm going to order a couple of books about Geisha life I found in Amazon. Just wondering if anyone else on POL founds this movie interesting enough to want to dig deeper into the actual life of Geisha.

Irinadax, I read a few books about geishas recently, including Memoirs. There's a spectrum in geisha-dom, between artist and prostitute. My impression is that the premier geishas, of which there are only a few, end up more at the artist end, though even they usually end up sleeping with clients at some point. The rest, especially at the lower end, are prostitutes with some social skills.

Geisha: A Life http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/074344429...6400633?ie=UTF8 is the autobiography of the woman who Arthur Golden (author of Memoirs of a Geisha) interviewed. She felt she wanted to set the record straight and very much disliked Golden's depiction of geisha life. She was at the classier end of the geisha spectrum. She sounds like a real character, definitely a strong woman. Since Memoirs was published and her identity made known, she has been shunned in many circles in Japan for making private things public.

For a very, very different (and much grittier) look at geisha life, try Autobiography of a Geisha. It's about a woman's life as a geisha prior to and during WWII. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/023112950...6400633?ie=UTF8 She was very poor, and her life was unimaginably tragic and difficult. She is apparently still alive, living quietly in Japan under a different name.

The word "gei" in Japanese means art. The Geisha (or geiko) is first and formost, an artist. She is not a prostitue and does not sleep with clients as a part of her job. A geisha may choose to have an affair/be involved, but if she does, it could be with any man, just as it is anywhere else in the world.

If a man in Japan wants sex, there are many bar "hostesses" (they often dress like geisha) who would be more than happy to oblige them for a price...

Mizuage is no longer practiced (not for a loooooong time.) At the time that it was, it was not considered prostitution, but more of a sexual rite of passage for the young woman (also, the geisha mother used it as a way to re-coup some of the enormous debt incurred with boarding/clothing the young woman in extravagant kimono for many years.) After the mizuage, the geisha was not tied to that man in any way.

Not all geisha were "lucky" enough to have a dana. A dana was a man (usually of considerable means,) who was willing to support financially a geisha that he wanted to have a serious relationship with. This might involve setting her up in a house, paying for her dance and music lessons, clothing her in kimono, etc. She would be his mistress, but still work as a geisha, attending banquets/entertaining guests. There were advantages and drawbacks to this. Many times the geisha mother would make the final decision about the dana, which meant that many geisha were trapped in long-term relationships with men they did not love.

I will go out on a limb and say that most geisha do not have a dana.

Things have considerably changed in the way the geisha mothers treat their "girls." With the demand for geisha dwindeling, and also the lack of young women wanting to enter this profession, geisha mothers treat their girls very well. They want them to stay, not scare them away. Geisha mothers do not "own" these girls any longer.

I hope this helps...

Nubka, this is the clarification I was looking for. I kind of figured the danna was a 'lover' but more serious, more 'involved' or rather, more 'committed'. It is by no means simple to understand, since we can't help but look at it through a Western perspective. I didn't know that Geisha could have a man 'on the side' sort of speak, but I know they weren't allowed to marry. I guess I was curious about to what extent they had sexual autonomy. As for the virginity issue, I can understand the rite of passage point of view, especially when we're talking about an entirely different culture, in an entirely different time, when sex was not viewed in the same way that it is viewed today, and by us. It was just the issue of 'sex in exchange for money' that confused me. However, you have explained it all so well!! ;-) Thanks.

Twitchly, those are precisely the two books I'm going to order from Amazon. I think together they show Geisha from the two extremes, the one Geisha who was privelaged to begin with, and the other that sadly wasn't so lucky. I want to read both points of view.

Thanks Ladies, I knew that this forum would have the answer. :-)

For reading, I would recommend Geisha by Liza Dalby. Dalby was an anthropologist who lived for a time in a Pontocho geisha house in Kyoto while completing her studies. In time, she actually became a geisha herself! Very interesting reading (and from a western viewpoint, too...)

It's worth noting that a Kyoto geisha is considered to be at the artist end of the spectrum. The rural, poor geisha was most definitely expected to sleep with her clients. No idea if that's still true today.

If she was rural, she might have been a "Yujo." The Yujo dress and hair was similar in some ways to geisha. Some might even play the koto or shamisen and do a little dancing, but their main purpose was sex. It's easy to tell a Yujo from a true Geisha. A Yujo will always tie her obi (sash) in the front (for easy access!) Also, Yujo wear waaaaay more ornaments in their hair than a Geisha/Maiko would. Yujo only painted their lower lip red and would blacken their teeth.

There are many talented geisha in Tokyo (Shimbashi) as well as Kyoto. You really don't see maiko in Tokyo, though, and I think that's why many people associate Kyoto with geisha. There are many maiko in Kyoto and that's usually what people see on postcards, travel brochures, etc. Kyoto also has a much larger geisha district than Tokyo. (Maiko are geisha in training.)

Another problem in Japan (and Tokyo in particular,) is that the older generation of men is dying off. These older men are the ones who appreciate the geisha/ochoya (tea house) way of entertaining. Young Japanese men have many other alternatives for entertainment, and of course, it's a whole different world than it was during the "golden age" of the geisha. Suprisingly, many Japanese don't really know anything specific about geisha. Men and women in Japan are now more comfortable socializing with each other in public, so the services of the geisha are not in demand as much as they used to be.

Tokyo ochoya (teahouses) are really in a business slump, because bookings for parties/banquets have fallen off so much in recent years. In an effort to survive, there are now upscale bars where a man off the street can stop in have a drink and chat with a real geisha. This would have been unheard of in prior days, where no matter how much money you had, you couldn't even set foot in a high class tea house without a recommandation from a patron that was already well known to the establishment.

Kyoto seems to be faring better...

Sorry to go on and on, but I've been a Japanophile all of my life and have read just about everything I can get my hands on concerning geisha...

Oh please don't apologize - I find the subject extremely fascinating.

You are a wealth of information on the subject Nubka, and I really have enjoyed reading your posts on this. I probably will not become a Japanophile any time soon, I mainly just found the Geisha so fascinating. Ofcourse, one interest always leads to another and another, that is the nature of the inquisitive mind, and it makes life so much richer. So I will probably end up learning about other Japanese things as I explore this fascinating subject. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us! I found a site immortalgeisha.com that has alot of information too and very pretty photos. You might want to check it out if you haven't already.

What a fantastic site, Irinadax...thank you sooooo much!!

I've already bookmarked it!